I donno, I could go for a Bud Light right now... us college students are poor! Cheers!

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It back, and me with a headcold..

I'll just put this in.. Science and religion are not in opposition. Regardless of what scrience dicovers, it is only that, a discovery.. Newton didn't create gravity he only found a way to describe it.. Science is a tool we can use to uncover some of God's mysteries.

Seriously, read some of the writing s of St. Athenasius (sp?) and St. Thomas Aquinas.. The both describe "created evolution" and reviel other "scientific" priciple's of God's work. The first did his writing in the 3rd Century Ad. a full 1300+ years before Darwin.

PAX

phew.. Look ^^ what Advil cold and sinus can do to you keyboarding skills

I should have given greets to all of the ressurected warriors.. Hey everbody!

SPITfire wrote: We make pretty good pyramids these days... I'm sure we could replicate them with current technology and computers if we really wanted to.

Yes, but I meant with basic tools there would be no way to replicate the pyrimids in this day and age. My fault for not stating that clearly the first time.

Andazzo wrote:Onto the Bible, if you have read it, then you would know that many events in the Old Testament were foreshadowings of the New Testament. There were many parts of it that foreshadowed the coming of Jesus. These two testaments were written thousands of years a part. Funny how things work out. I know man wrote it but others also read it at the time when it was first written. If it were untrue people would rant and change it. Kind of like if a book that came out today that said Kennedy was never assassinated. Well we weren't born, but our parents sure were when it happened. I'm sure they could read that book and point out everything that was false in it. Same goes for the account of Jesus. The books were written after his death but most of the population was still alive that listened to his teachings and personally watched him die on the cross. If Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John came out with books and they weren't truthful every one would call them out on it. The books wouldn't be the basis for a religion if the people who actually witnessed the events didn't believe them.

Yes, I agree with you. The bible is like a really old school history book, lol. Just like if human existance survives for a couple thousand more years, they will be debating if the JFK assassination was a fact or hoax!

Good points.

JinxedZ wrote:Also, it has been proven that the Earth goes through stages where temperatures may increase/decrease over time Naturally... think of the Ice Ages... I read there have been nearly a dozen so far, the majority of which where long before human industrialization. But aside from that, there is also proof that the earth went through opposite periods where it increased in temp. as well.

Tru dat! My cousin preaches that to me all the time, lol.

Godsspeed wrote:if one side could prove that they beliefs were correct and that the other was false... there would be no need for faith. i mean, lets say that i could prove, without a doubt, that God created everything and the bible is true.... then everyone who at first did not believe it would not have to take the leap of faith and totally trust God. and having to trust in Him is a KEY part!!

Yeah, I see it the same way. Life is a test. What's the point of a test if you know all the answers!!!

KOTL wrote:As long as it's a good beer, and not Schlitz, Bud, Beast, Natural Ice, Lablatt, Miller, et al.

Gimme a good microbrew. preferably a canadian or pac. NW microbrew

Hey, theres nothin' wrong with Schlitz!!!! Schlitz Ice kept me drunk throughout junior high and for only $7.50 CDN for a 6 of tall cans and 7% alc.!?!?!?!?! Woowzers, what a bargain!! Tastes like piss water though but eh, drunk is drunk.

And Bud is okay, too................. for an American beer!

Just kidding. I like it.


And what is this microbrew you speak of Keeper?

Please elaborate.......






<br>


"Street Life"
- Tom

Try Pike Kiltlifter, Pyramid Snowcap, Redhook ESB, et al. <br>

Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Like our Waterloo dark, or Creemore, or algonquin ales.. The small breweries that typically sell locally only.. Hard to get Creemore in Alberta for example, but You can get it in Ontario.. Or maybe the really small breweries, like Pub Drafts brewed in house.. The Ceeps (a bar) brews there own.. It's pretty good too.. Personally I still prefer Guiness.. The Brick beers like Waterloo dark.. Yum.. I guess Guiness isn't really a beer, it's a stout.. The only thing better than a good dark Ale is a truely black stout.

PAX

Now we're moving into evolution and creation of beers. So, new topic? Are beers just created and the same throughout their history, or has beer evolved and changed its taste?

evolution...

it would explain why budwieser is like grinking water and Bridgeport Old Knucklehead (9.1 on the richter scale) is not sold anywhere but the bridgeport brewery in Portland, OR.

it's also hord for beer traditionalists who like their beeds in a can to swallow... <br>

Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

well i know some beers taste way different than others. i'm saying the beers each individually. does a budweiser today taste the same as a budweiser back in the 1800s? or do you think the taste has evolved?

I think once a beer is named, the recipe and the process are pretty much locked in.. There are likely some exceptions, but then there are extreme cases of preservation as well. If you get curious, check out "the Heather brewery" in the UK at

http://www.fraoch.com/

They claim their ales date back to 2000 BC AKA more than 4000 year old recipes.. They don't use hops, it's too modern.. Instead they use heather, pine, eldeberries, etc, for their bitters. I've had their products and in spite of the lack of head, they are really good ales.. I can only get them at Christmas time though as they are only imported as gift packs here. I enjoy about 8 bottles a year, 2 each of 4 different types.

YUM.. Some beers had better not change, and others can just go away as far as I'm concerned

Godsspeed wrote:

if one side could prove that they beliefs were correct and that the other was false... there would be no need for faith. i mean, lets say that i could prove, without a doubt, that God created everything and the bible is true.... then everyone who at first did not believe it would not have to take the leap of faith and totally trust God. and having to trust in Him is a KEY part!!

TOMMAX:

Quote:

Yeah, I see it the same way. Life is a test. What's the point of a test if you know all the answers!!!

i dont know if i would say that... life is a test, but the answers are in the bible...
but i think you know what i was talking about... <br>

You can have faith in God and still believe in evolution... I mean God is not going to condemn you for not believing every story in the Bible, especially the crazy ones (creation story, Noah's Ark, Jonah and the whale)... God is watching how you live your life and treat others... not what part of the Bible you believe or how much you read it. That is why organized religion is messed up... you should be able to talk to God whenever and wherever you want, and not have to be forced to believe what the priest or pastor tells you.

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God refers to the Bible as His word..... so are you saying that you dont have to believe in what he says?
yeah, you can believe in God and still believe in evolution.... Atheists acknowledge there is a God.
(and before you jump down my throat i am in no way calling you a atheist)

when i say "believe in him" im not talking about believing in his existence... i mean BELIEVING IN HIM... trustin him. i dont see how you can trust in someone when you only listen to some of the things they say and not others....

this cant go on for long.. only soo many posts left! <br>

Sure the Bible is God's word, but it is not complete.. God cannot be contained in a book.. Seems to me information is given on a need-to-know basis.. The Bible offers us one tiny sliver of God's wisdom.

I can understand people's troubles with the flood story, but Why Creation? It lacks detain in a way that allows for all we see to have come about through Created evolution, just like biblical scholars have been saying for 1600 years. The "days" involved are not literal Earth days. In the begining there was no Earth.. The "days" are simply divition of dark and light periods...

About Noah.. Hmm, that one is tough, seems regional to me, and part of the people's oral history.. Follows closely the story of Gilgamesh, also regional, expressed as the world. Interesting that there are some people pretty convinced that the Ark is stuck up in the mountains of Turkey. I think it could be somwhat true, just the scale is out of wack.. Or maybe it's completely true, I am certainly in no position to question biblical authority.

PAX

also you have to consider the "huh" factor:

if god would have shared about atoms, or the concepts of space or the krebs cycle or ATP or DNA or virus or prions or bacteria---- all he would have got from us humans at that time is a big "huh"? WTF? and so therefore im sure he had no reservations against not telling us squat.



<br>





.... and everytime i look within i recongnize the darkness; familiar to the image of the artist....

You can't truly believe in God and believe in Evolution. That is, you believe what is said in the Bible. Genesis says that in the beginning God created Man and from Man he created Woman. And then God provided food for Man in the form of fruits and vegetables to grow and animals to hunt. It doesn't state that God created animal and then over the next thousand years animal turned into Man. As soon as God created Man he laid down the rules and the two communicated. Man was not some bumbling half ape caveman that grunted. Evolution negates basically the whole first part of the Book of Genesis. And if you choose not to believe what Genesis says then you miss out on the whole SIN part which is kind of vital to the whole religion. <br>

Quote:

And if you choose not to believe what Genesis says then you miss out on the whole SIN part which is kind of vital to the whole religion.

This would matter if i followed your religion. I don't.

Remember, i see the universe as cyclic, not linear. <br>

Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Keeper, my post wasn't directed at you because I know you're not a Christian or part of any other religion that somewhat follows the Bible. It was mostly towards people who believe they are Christians but also believe Evolution. Thus, anyone who doesn't consider themselves a "growing" (key word) Christian, my post doesn't apply to them. <br>

God's word is truth. If you can't trust God's word...then why have faith at all? It's part of being a Christian. You can't believe in MACROevolution and still trulybelieve in God, because then you are saying God's word doesn't pan out...and that can't happen, He is infallable. You have to believe in evolution on a smaller level, because there are proofs of it. I will never believe (again ) that we have evolved from a lesser species.

On Jonah and the whale...This was God's only proof as to Jesus being who he said he is. And quite frankly, if Jesus can believe it, I can believe it. Jesus compared his 3 days in the earth to that of Jonah's period in the whale ("For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."). I'm not going to retell the story, as it can be found on a lot of different websites...but Jesus retold it as historically accurate...and Jesus didn't lie. He couldn't lie, He is God's only son. It's not a hard concept for Christians: If you can't believe in truth (Jeus is the way, the truth, and the life), then why believe at all?



On a side note...my word...I though this thread would only remain in memories.
<br>

Quote:

Project Will: I will never believe (again ) that we have evolved from a lesser species.

im interested... send me an email!! godsspeedministries@hotmail.com <br>

Quote:

I will never believe (again ) that we have evolved from a lesser species

How can you say that all the other species on this Earth are "lesser species". Sure they are less intelligent, but they are just as important as we are to the planet and they sure don't fudge it up like we do.

About these other stories... you are not condemned to hell because you don't believe in some creation story. These stories could well have been ones to teach a lesson explain God's word to the layperson (the ancient peoples of the Middle East most likely could not fathom current evolutionary theories or what a billion years was). They didn't even know 3/4 of the Earth existed! That same spatial argument can be made on the Noah story. There was a show on Disovery on the evidence for the Flood. There is alot of evidence for a localized catastrophic flood in that region during the time of Gilgamesh's story. The Bible version was clearly based on the earlier tale and was a perfect sotry to put in the Bible to warn people of the power of God. Jonah and the Whale likewise... a man could not possibly survive in a whale's stomach for that long...not even for minutes.

I refuse to believe the people who say I am not a "believer" because Idon't believe in Genesis. Its the same situation back in the Inquisition when Catholics killed men for saying the Earth was round and that the Earth was not the center of the Universe. Who lost that argument? Not the scientists...

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Lesser specie?!?!?!?!

You're actually <i>insinuating</i> that humans are a noble specie!?!?!?!

Don't be rediculous. Considering the atrocities humans have created in the past, we're closer to the lessest specie on earth! Moreso, using linear logic, if God created man in his own image, God must be an arrogant, self-centered, parasitic bastard.

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Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Keeper, if you were to creat a piece of art, any piece of art.. Would that not be you image? In his own image doesn't mean that we look like him, it means that he created us just the way he pictured us.. God is not physical, so how could we look alike, and further, just because things look similar, does that mean that they act similar? Ever known any twins? Then you know what I mean..

AnDaZZo.. The origin of the Human specie was not really discussed in this thread.. I believe man was a single creation unto itself, like the Bible describes.. The other life forms were "created" but as seed type specie.. It was done that way in part to ensure we had fossil fuels (to abuse), and that kind of thing.. Various organic chemical resources.. I believe in what the Church fathers of the 3rd century described as Created evolution, that God planted the seeds of life, and the grew and flourished for our benefit.

Thing about what the planet will be like as we exhaust our oil reserves.. We will bring about our own armageddon, "When man acts as God".. IE: the near future, in our new found "cashless society"

PAX

Think.. Not thing about it.. Think about it.. I sure wish we had an edit button.. Like other forums do.. Our would that take away froom the membership sales potential?

Brother.....

So, since the image contains part of that which created it--my argument still holds...

If we take the monotheistic method of thinking, God created us to be arrogant, parasitic, self-important bastards...

thus, the same impulse must be contained within God.

I could easily be reflected into the "jealous god".

Still, my point was, did we come from a lesser specie? How? We ARE the lesser specie on the earth! <br>

Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.