I am going to be painting my car in the coming months, but i need to get it into primer. What would be the best primer to use (the car will be blue when finished). I will maybe drive it a little bit in primer so I know i will have to re-primer it before I paint it. I have a fiberglass bodykit that needs painted also. I have heard of an epoxy primer from PPG, would that work for this? Would I then use more of a sealer when I get ready to paint?? thanks for any help or suggestions.
I would also like to stay with PPG as it is easily available in my area. (unless someone can sell me on somthing diff besides HOK).
Member since: 03/2005
The PPG DP series of primers is as bulletproof as any you can find. DP grips bare metal extremely well and is recommended under Bondo in doing bodywork. The most popular is DP 90, a semi-flat black, that rat rodders call "California suede." Technically, DP primers require a color coat to prevent UV deterioration, but may vehicle owners like the look so much that they never spray on a color.
DP primers require a corresponding catalyst and is it not inexpensive to spray.
With additional thinner the DP series can be used as a sealer.
what if it is not going to be bare metal??
Member since: 03/2005
then you shouldn't attempt to paint the car, with all the work and expense your going thru to paint it you should do it right, down to bare metal then primer.
Gotta build a solid foundation for that paint to grip to.
-Chris
sorry, should have worded it diff....not bare metal....but fiberglass?? (bodykit)
Member since: 03/2005
Talk to the PPG counter crew to see if they recommend a flexible primer for your fiberglass. I would rely on DP, but they may have a different opinion.
I am leaving this second to drive from MA to the the flea market at Englishtown
Can anyone else explain the can of worms that is created when the factory primers and anti-corrosion sealants are removed with chemical strippers and rinsed with water
to reduce a vehicle to bare metal for paint?
The results can be close to catastrophic if you are not very careful. After doing it for more than a dozen cars I'm not sure the results are worth it.
Jack Chiras wrote:
Can anyone else explain the can of worms that is created when the factory primers and anti-corrosion sealants are removed with chemical strippers and rinsed with water
to reduce a vehicle to bare metal for paint?
The results can be close to catastrophic if you are not very careful. After doing it for more than a dozen cars I'm not sure the results are worth it.
elaborate on this please, i am confused, do go to bare metal or not??
Member since: 03/2005
no offense but you sound like you have no clue what your doing. you might wanna just take it to a shop. if you mess up, some shops wont even touch the car and the shops that will, will spend hour and hours sanding off what you did just to start all over again.
^^^ that and most shops wont touch anything with work done by someone else anyway... IF they do, they're not going to warranty it
ok, the dp 90 is a great product i do agree, but it is no longer in use that`s why there is the dp lf 90 lead free
but there is no need to use the dp sealer under body filler if you use a anti corrosion primer filler like the ncp 271
it`s is a anti corrosion primer and a high build primer filler, when it first came out they said you could tinit it with color to make it more thicker and could use it as a sealer tinted also
but then ppg came back and said no don`t use it like use it as a primer filler only
if you have ALLOT of old material on the car meaning ALLOT of paint jobs then yes i would chemically strip the car to metal and start over, if not no need to go that crazy you could use a mud hog with 80 then d.a. with 120 then 180 prime dry block prime wet sand 240 320 400 600 seal it base clear
i also agree if you do the work your self it will cost allot more due to the fact that we would know what is underneath the primer not knowing what has been done is a bad thing and no warranty we would have to start all over again and that would cost crazy money
my suggestion to you is to leave it alone, save your money and take it to a shop un touched
can i haz bondo
this will be only the second car that I am repainting....the first one I did was back in high school...a long time ago (at least according to years it has been that). The car is a 04 sunfire and has never been painted other than original.
Member since: 03/2005
ok so I went to the shop and picked up some primer. The guys at the shop told me to buy Autobody Master Professional Epoxy Primer (black). They said that it is a lot better than the PPG omni line (which I used ast time). Has anybody had any experience with this before. I Think this is the stuff that a friend of mine had used and he really liked it.
Member since: 03/2005
dcjes wrote:ok so I went to the shop and picked up some primer. The guys at the shop told me to buy Autobody Master Professional Epoxy Primer (black). They said that it is a lot better than the PPG omni line (which I used ast time). Has anybody had any experience with this before. I Think this is the stuff that a friend of mine had used and he really liked it.
Nope... I always used DuPont, X-otic, and used Alsa twice. I have sprayed PPG, I liked DuPont better myself. I'd ask big daddy, he's a PPG guy
I agree that painting a car properly is generally best left to the experts. It only takes one mistake, a little stripper left under a rubber moulding, an uneven sanding job, incompatible materials, letting bare metal turn to rust before priming, over spray on unpainted areas or any of a hundred other problems to ruin the finished result.
After working at home with paint for over 20 years, I have enormous respect for those professionals who turn out first class work on a day-to-day basis. It is not a skill that can be learned with a rattle can and by reading a book. It takes hours and hours to get it right. The amount of required equipment alone in volume and expense is staggering. The technology, the materials, and health issues as well as state & federal laws governing spray painting are constantly changing.
It may seem like too much money to pay a shop to do the work, but when properly done it will be a bargain when compared to trying to do it yourself.
I just returned from the flea market at Englishtown, NJ where I overheard two car owners discussing painting their high buck modified vehicles. Each had been quoted over $10,000 by professional painters and both thought that the outstanding quality of work previously done by the shops justified the expense.
For the inexperienced, the task is to find a shop where quality work is important. A patient painter who can explain step-by step what he will do, down to the grit of the sandpaper and the pressure at the nozzle with a list of satisfied clients is a good place to begin.
"No runs, no drips, no errors, no orange peel, no dust" is worth rewarding the professional painter.
finally some one that understands
well the omni product is PPG made by PPG i use it and i like but only the clear, not anything else
the omni will work with ppg`s dbu and dbc systems no problem at all
my suggestion to you is to stick with either the dbu which is way old technology or go with the dbc line which just came out 5 yr`s ago
i suggest the dbc line, when the base is activated ppg`s claims it is chip resistant i think it is the nose on my car only has a few so i say it works
plus it help with film build when doing graphics and helps a high mettalic lay down allot nicer then with out dx 57
the dbc base is mixed 1;1 using dt reducer when activated it is 1;1 to5% dx 57
trust me you will love the dbc system i know i do
can i haz bondo
Darkstar,
Big Daddy, I and others have contributed to this thread with suggestions regarding the repaint of a car after responding to a very reasonable question regarding the use of PPG DP (LF) epoxy primers.
Your most recent post suggests that you also have some expertise in this area.
Please help us to stop the idiocy.
Let's assume that you have a yellow 99 Z-24 that had already been repainted and you want to redo it in Ultra Metallic Silver basecoat/clearcoat. Currently the car suffers from overbuffing on the hood, rust bubbles in the rockers and a nasty crease in the upper trunk.
Please take us through the steps that you would use to recoat the car including techniques, equipment, materials and manufacturers.
I'm sure that we could all learn from your experence.
Jack
Let's assume that you have a yellow 99 Z-24 that had already been repainted and you want to redo it in Ultra Metallic Silver basecoat/clearcoat. Currently the car suffers from overbuffing on the hood, rust bubbles in the rockers and a nasty crease in the upper trunk.
first thing i would do is look over the whole car and mark all the bad spot on the metal, dis-assemble the eintire car even the glass comes out, all metal comes off too, hood, fenders, doors, and deck lid
the parts that have been re-painted yes i would strip down to raw metal using air craft paint remover, too much material on metal is not a good thing so you wold want to start new
the rest of the car i would D.A. with 120 then 180, when it comes to rust the only way to remove it would be sand blasting, if it is completely eaten away new metal would have to be fab`d in and using a weld through primer before welding in the new metal, on the back side of the new metal and the donor metal as well
fixing dents on hoods, roofs, and deck lids,, can be annoying metal is to thin and too flat no strenght in it move to slowly with your grinder or trying to remove the dent to fast to hard it will warp, so i say junk yard deck lid
why?? fresh car new metal will look 100% better
in side the jambs maybe some 320 then a red scuff pad nothing to serious in here
and no no need for DP product before you apply "bondo" that method was used over 10 yrs ago before PPG came out with the ncp primer not even a self etching primer before bondo bondo needs the grinded metal to stick it does stick over a self etching primer but no need not when there is a product that stops rust
so prime the whole car door jambs included, let the ncp 271 dry for 2 days dry block the whole car with 180, re-prime only 2 coats and wet sand with 320,400,then 600, then i always go over with 1,000 for the peopl that pay allot lol it`s true
i wash the car down with soap and water let it dry over night and water that comes out use your blow gun blow it off, wipe the car down, and begin to tape the car, have the porter clean the booth lol wipe the car down one more time with ppg`s dx 330, tack it off and apply sealer
now the sealer is also the ncp 2004 2005 or 2003 just different colors, this is not rust resistant so use ppg`s self etching primer in the rattle can for the small spot of bare metal apply sealer
that has to dry for 20min`s in a booth, if not give it almost an hour, takc it off start applying the base coat
you say such a high mettalic i suggest using the dx 57 in the base coat, not only will it activate the base it will help with all that mettalic and it is chip resistant so they say
now dbc dries much faster then the DBU so use the dt 85 temp in between coats wait 10 min`s takc it off each time, oh ya almost forgot NO NEED FOR FLEX AGENT!!!! i only use that on regular bumpers and very flexable parts the flex agent evaporates in 6 months so no need for that on a body kit!!!!
now before you clear the car go over it to find any dirt, any scratches, if you do then sand it down with 1500, re apply base coat now if you finish let`s say at 5 in the afternoon and ya have to go home can`t clear the car PPG`S DBU product has a 24 hour window which mean there is no need to come in the morning and sand the base down and re aply more base just tack it off and clear the car
so that`s what i do , those are my own techniques i have used over 15 yrs and it works great, you need allot of experience, yes painting is easy but it is also a art and ya need to be schooled in the product you are appling to the car
so i hope this helps and this case is closed!!!
can i haz bondo
Big Daddy,
Thank you.
Good stuff. I learned a lot.
Darkstar, do you agree?
Jack
On rust, I usually use diluted muriatic acid and a scuff pad with a water rinse followed by DuPont Conversion (Phosphate) before priming with DP 90.
sorry guys i stated that PPG DBU system ha sa 24 hour window it does not, DBC system has the 24 window i just saw it now
sorry for the confusion
and i believe darkstars is a mechanic not a body man
can i haz bondo
i have a couple more questions....
Should I do anything after I spray the base?? Should I color sand or not?
After I have the clear on, how long before I can wet sand that or use some 3m finishing materials??
I went with the omni line by the way....i needed it done cheaper than the db line.
Member since: 03/2005
dcjes wrote:i have a couple more questions....
Should I do anything after I spray the base?? Should I color sand or not?
After I have the clear on, how long before I can wet sand that or use some 3m finishing materials??
I went with the omni line by the way....i needed it done cheaper than the db line.
1. Cheaper does not always equal better... but ok
2. If you do not know the answer to this question, DO NOT SAND THE BASE COAT... ESPECIALLY if it has metallics... no scrap that.. just don't sand the basecoat...
3. After the clear is on, the amount of time you should wait to wet sand and buff depends on many different determining factors, such as:
a. How much base/clear did you put on? Read the Body work sticky... more coats does NOT equal better.
b. What kind of activators/reducers did you use?
c. Did/are you baking the car after clearing or not?
d. What are the environmental factors in where you sprayed/will spray the car? Is it cold? Hot? Humid? Was it in a controlled very good paint booth? Was it in a garage (like house garage)?
e. Orange peel is NORMAL (just in case someone says something stupid about if you get orange peel it's a bad paint job)
f. How well was the clear sprayed on? Runs? Too thick? Too dry?
At LEAST let it sit overnight. Wetsanding too soon will cause the clear to roll, and it'll turn out like crap... plus, even if you do manage wetsanding it ok, if the clear isn't set enough you could easily burn the clearcoat.
any pointers for putting on the clear coat. I am going to be spraying this today. Should I use a tak cloth on the base before I spray the clear? Any other pointers would be great.
Member since: 03/2005
VERY CAREFULLY run a tack cloth over the base before the clear, and make sure it's sat long enough between coats. Run it over the base VERY lightly.
Spraying the clear... it's all about sight. You need very good lighting, and you just have to watch how the clear is going on. If the clear looks as if it has the texture of a matte photograph, it's sprayed on too dry. If it runs, it's too thick. You want a nice gloss... but basically with any painting it's all about looking how the paint is laying on the surface and knowing what it's supposed to look like to adjust any spraying techniques. Some prefer spraying with a 50/50 overlap pattern, some prefer a 2/3 overlap. Depends on how you mixed the clear, the type and brand of clear, and many other factors. Some special paints recommend a 75/25 overlap... You just gotta watch it closely as you're spraying and between coats. Never put on more coats than are needed to cover for the base (when everything looked even, I usually added one more coat for good measure), with clear, 2-3 coats should be just fine. Too much is a bad thing.
