yeah.. I just found out, Im getting more money than I planned on, so now, I might get a z24.. Just to have it... I love the idea of the 2200, but I wanted to do that because it would cost less than swapping a z24 or ecotec in it, and turbocharging it, but... I can get a z24 for a very good price, and build a turbo kit for that.
I still have it in my mind, that I want a built motor.. So, again, Im going to do a head job (valves, cams, etc.) and aftermarket rods and pistons in another motor I will build outside of the car... I just need to find a good long block from a wrecking yard or something so I can start the build...
Where are some good places to get engine internals for the z24 engine?
Where can I find manifolds? ebay? thats where I found a bunch of 2200 manifolds that would fit a mitsu style turbo.. I want to run my 14b for a while (since I already have a turbo), but then upgrade to a 16g from slowboy racing..
If I were to use the internal wastegate on the mitsubishi turbo's, how would I mount the turbo so I could fab a downpipe? because I have seen a few kits where the the manifold is a top mount, and the Mitsu turbo o2 housing would point straight up...
would It be easier to buy the stage one kit from cavalierconnection.com for 2500, and custom the piping for the intercooler? cause I can get an intercooler and piping for next to nothing, but then again, this kit will bolt in, then I just route the piping for the intercooler myself... plus, the kit has a garret turbo, which I would rather use as opposed to a mitsu turbo, because I can upgrade my garret turbo so many different ways...
anyone got any advice? AND JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS.. I DONT WANT TO HEAR ANY "SWAP ECOTEC AND TURBO" RESPONSES... If you cannot answer my questions, please dont respond... It makes things difficult for others who come accross posts like this for help, and all they get is 10 posts of bitching, then one informative post... please... answers and help only...
it seems as though I cannot get a kit.. oh well... soooo... any help
if u keep the 2200 i have almost all the parts you would need to build it pm me for more info
a 14b turbo may be a bit small for a 2.4. Most DSM motors with anything over 7 psi are overworking the turbo. A t3/t4 is usually best suited for a 2.4 motor as well as a super 60. When it comes to the manifold not many places make them anymore. If you plan on building up the motor make sure to swap the oil pump setup to a 2.3 setup as it is a higher flowing unit.
My thought on wastegates is this.... An external is ALWAYS the better choice and i suggest you get one as well. On a stock motor if you have a major boost spike it can be devastating which is more likely to happen with an internal gate.
that is not true... 14b's are efficient up to 17 PSI.. they are great turbos, and flow enough air to make 300hp.. I know.. I had a 300hp DSM with the stock 14b in a 1G 6bolt Talon TSi AWD... at 17 psi, I put down 297/288...
I will for sure upgrade the oil pump.. Im actually going to see about an aftermarket oil pump... would that work, or would the 2.3 setup be good enough?
Im not going to boost a stock motor.. I just said Im going to build it, before I put it in and boost it... the 14b o2 manifold with the internal wastegate doesnt creep or spike, and If it does (which is really rare) then I can just port the wastegate a lil bit...
The EVO3 16g turbos, when put in with their stock manifolds, WILL boost creep at anything past 10 psi.. they usually have to have the wastegate flapper replaced with a 1mm oversized one, and have the o2 manifold ported...
The only reason I want to go with mitsu turbos, is they are inexpensive to get, inexpensive to rebuild, I can do it myself, and they make lots of power...
I do understand the idea of external wastegates, but how would I mod my o2 manifold for an external one? weld the internal shut, and let the external do the work?
well.. the thing is, I am not getting a 2200.. if I can find one for the right price, I am getting a z24.. but I guess I would take a 2200 as second choice... but now that I am getting a lil more cash, I should be able to get the z24
Wrench Monkey wrote:
My thought on wastegates is this.... An external is ALWAYS the better choice and i suggest you get one as well. On a stock motor if you have a major boost spike it can be devastating which is more likely to happen with an internal gate.
How is internal gate by design more likely to spike?
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Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Downpipe w/ Cutout | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |
thats what I would like to know.. the only problem I have ever seen with spiking and whatnot caused by an internal wastegate is the 16g stock wastegate... and they tend to spike at about 12 psi to 18-20, then back down.. and they tend to creep, because the wastegate port is too small for the amount of air comming from the engine to release enough air to slow down the turbo...
Internal wastegates are not bad... external are just better..
most cats running stock DSM turbos (ie 14b, 16g, 15g, etc.) use the stock internal wastegate (except for the 16g users) on their cars, and run upwards of 20 psi on the turbo... and no problems... most of the time, people on those cars do not want to change the exhaust manifold to an externally gated manifold, because the cast iron 2g DSM exhaust manifold is very strong and flows just fine... as opposed to getting tubular turbo exhaust manifolds, which tend to crack after a while... Plus, they are expensive for QUALITY manifolds... they really are grip... haha...
I just want to be able to bolt up my mitsu turbo, and at least have the o2 manifold outlet facing down, towards the exhaust, instead of up and in to the hood... would I be able to fit a 14b in the back of these motors with a bottom mount turbo manifold?
BlackEco wrote:Wrench Monkey wrote:
My thought on wastegates is this.... An external is ALWAYS the better choice and i suggest you get one as well. On a stock motor if you have a major boost spike it can be devastating which is more likely to happen with an internal gate.
How is internal gate by design more likely to spike?
Because the size of the wastegate hole in the turbine casting is TINY as well as the actuator isnt the strongest piece. (i think i meant to say creep. either way its BAD) Along with all that to run a mitsu turbo on a ld9 is more then likely to require more money to get everything working correctly then just buying a t3 flanged manifold and turbo.
As far as the mitsu turbo.... there might be only one choice for a ld9 mani to run a mitsu turbo, and thats the cast manifold on ebay if i remember correctly its a mitsu flange or a t25.
Go external, if you ever want to get into high hp applications you'll be better off.
How many of the J's that are over 350 use an internal gate? That should tell you everything you need to know.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, February 09, 2008 10:08 AM
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4 Cams...32 Valves...5 Liters...This Could Get Fun!
Skunk - REBORN 4/08 wrote:Go external, if you ever want to get into high hp applications you'll be better off.
exactly why do things twice.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, February 09, 2008 10:10 AM
Wrench Monkey wrote:Skunk - REBORN 4/08 wrote:Go external, if you ever want to get into high hp applications you'll be better off.
why do things twice.
IMO build your turbo kit to the hp levels you want to see. Then you won't have to go buying another turbo and getting the manifold changed and a ton of other crap when you decide that you want to start building for significant power.
Yeah you might be overkill at the start, you might have some lag and the car might not be as fast as it could w/ a properly sized turbo for stock application, but when you build the engine you will only have the cost of engine parts and not the additional costs of another turbo, a wastegate and potentially another manifold.
I went overkill w/ my turbo and everything when i put my kit together, and now I'm building the engine to go along w/ the turbo.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, February 09, 2008 10:14 AM
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4 Cams...32 Valves...5 Liters...This Could Get Fun!
Skunk - REBORN 4/08 wrote:How many of the J's that are over 350 use an internal gate? That should tell you everything you need to know.
When our Sunfire was making 405whp back in the day it had an internal wastegate. Unless you plan on going to high high HP range (Like 500+ Crank HP), the only discernable difference between an external and internal wastegate is that the external wastegate is a bit more complicated because it needs a flange coming off the manifold, and it's own downpipe which needs to be reintroduced into the exhaust after the turbo somewhere. If you can in fact buy a manifold and the necessary equipment for an external wastegate without having to custom build it, I say go for it. If you have to custom build it, it's definitely a fair amount more work. With the Mitsu turbo'ed applications I've been a part of, none have had a problem with boost creep or spiking and all had an internal wastegate.
Street-Legal 2003 Sunfire 10.58 @ 139 MPH
I never said I wanted 350 horses... I want to be about a 13 second car, with or without the z24... whether it be a 2200 or quad 4, I only want about 250 to 300 at the most for a daily driver.. And I can do it with both motors... its really just which one I get...
