So far, alot of what's been said here is my buddy says, or he says or he did. A rating to the parts is half the battle. There are hundreds of factors that go in to putting a motor together and one mistake such as not completely tightening the 2 head studs on that side of the motor could be the reason that crank blew up. It's easy to take the odd instances and rare occurences, but how many people are running 400+ hp with eagle that have no problems?
When we were running 410 whp (about 500hp) the only motor parts we replaced were rods (eagle), pistons (JE), and the valve springs and retainers (Ferrea). We put at least 200 low 12-mid 11 second passes on that motor before taking it out of the car and not one part failed. Comparing a Honda motor to an Ecotec motor is like comparing a kitten to a lion
. I don't think one person here can disagree that if the motor is built right, the Ecotec is hands down the strongest. PJ, what you have should be just fine for what you are planning right now...at least I think...never know with your crazy self. And, if something does fail, so be it thats racing. Fix it, and move on.
As far as all the logistics of the rest of the boosted system, that's what I wanna know, you know im crazy about that stuff...
Street-Legal 2003 Sunfire 10.58 @ 139 MPH
exactly. so out the door goes the stock sleeve power limit theory...
Blew it up, build numbers coming soon
Jacob Smith wrote:I don't see the infamous dual balance shafts on the crank 
LOL..... just..... lol.....
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
JoeyDaBomb wrote:Joey
This build is Chris-Approved as well!
I can hook you up with machine work and assembly if you're interested?
Project Resurrection is in full swing!
Adam Hahn wrote:So far, alot of what's been said here is my buddy says, or he says or he did. A rating to the parts is half the battle. There are hundreds of factors that go in to putting a motor together and one mistake such as not completely tightening the 2 head studs on that side of the motor could be the reason that crank blew up. It's easy to take the odd instances and rare occurences, but how many people are running 400+ hp with eagle that have no problems?
When we were running 410 whp (about 500hp) the only motor parts we replaced were rods (eagle), pistons (JE), and the valve springs and retainers (Ferrea). We put at least 200 low 12-mid 11 second passes on that motor before taking it out of the car and not one part failed. Comparing a Honda motor to an Ecotec motor is like comparing a kitten to a lion . I don't think one person here can disagree that if the motor is built right, the Ecotec is hands down the strongest. PJ, what you have should be just fine for what you are planning right now...at least I think...never know with your crazy self. And, if something does fail, so be it thats racing. Fix it, and move on.
As far as all the logistics of the rest of the boosted system, that's what I wanna know, you know im crazy about that stuff...
that was beautiful
its so funny to come on here and discuss what most of us know to be true. and yet you take the same conversation to the streete and all you get is eco what...? and people are like umm you excpet that motor to do what
I try and reference the hahn sunfire and all I get is laughs... oh wheel I guess its better that way anyway.
PJ what are you doing for the balance shaft delet?
and if you go with another chain your going to have to degree the camshaft. you might as well pick up the adjustable cam gears, I think karo has a set.
"
Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
Jcavi wrote:
PJ what are you doing for the balance shaft delet?
and if you go with another chain your going to have to degree the camshaft. you might as well pick up the adjustable cam gears, I think karo has a set.
i'm using the LZM balance shaft delete kit unless I can find a simpler way to get rid of them.
Why would I have to mess with the cams? they're on a seperate chain... even if I do put a different chain on the waterpump/ balance shafts, it doesn't mess with the cams at all.
PJ, what turbo are you planning to use?
- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.
adjustable cam gears are junk, and not worth it. trust me, if you want me to explain I will, in length
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
^^ Really? Because I know of at least one NA ecotec who was in the record race and had dynoed gains by changing cam timing with the stock cams
Problem is, no one around here would have a freaking clue how to set cam gears, and they sure won't pony up the money for dyno time to get it right.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
QBE (Aka Phil No More Boost) wrote:adjustable cam gears are junk, and not worth it. trust me, if you want me to explain I will, in length
phil, i'd love to know as well
Blew it up, build numbers coming soon
DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) - APU wrote:Jcavi wrote:
PJ what are you doing for the balance shaft delet?
and if you go with another chain your going to have to degree the camshaft. you might as well pick up the adjustable cam gears, I think karo has a set.
i'm using the LZM balance shaft delete kit unless I can find a simpler way to get rid of them.
Why would I have to mess with the cams? they're on a seperate chain... even if I do put a different chain on the waterpump/ balance shafts, it doesn't mess with the cams at all.
I should be slaped in the face for saying that I stared at the timing assembly all summer and I still managed to f that up..... Im sad now.
any thoughts on tuning device?
"
Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:^^ Really? Because I know of at least one NA ecotec who was in the record race and had dynoed gains by changing cam timing with the stock cams Problem is, no one around here would have a freaking clue how to set cam gears, and they sure won't pony up the money for dyno time to get it right.
tony from CNFX had gotten 2 sets of them. After using them on my car, trying 5 or 6 different combinations of timing the most whp I gained was 3 whp and at that point lost 4 tq. that was on a stock motor with all bolt ons and my first stage of stage 3 cams.
Matt Kunkle a member here had a patriot stage 2 head on an NA motor and also spent hours on the dyno trying to find a winning combination and as the same could not come to a gain that was much more then the factory setting without shifting the power band way out of use.
Now mind you, this was before HP Tuners and all of that. We had also been talking with colt cams during the whole process for their advice, the company thats grinds the LZM stuff. (as of back then). Had we had something to tune with, I am guaranteeing that things would have worked out better.
I just think for what they are worth the money can be best spent somewhere else
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) - APU wrote:Jcavi wrote:
PJ what are you doing for the balance shaft delet?
and if you go with another chain your going to have to degree the camshaft. you might as well pick up the adjustable cam gears, I think karo has a set.
i'm using the LZM balance shaft delete kit unless I can find a simpler way to get rid of them.
Why would I have to mess with the cams? they're on a seperate chain... even if I do put a different chain on the waterpump/ balance shafts, it doesn't mess with the cams at all.
Do what im doing
Electronic Water pump .... granted you haev to custom make the mounting plates, the hoses, and mounting the pump and wire it in but think of it this way ... You free'd up the chain, all the tension on the chain going round and round 10x more area then it needs to, and the pump itself...
Just an idea ... plus its cheaper .... it costs the same for the pump, hoses, enough stock for the plates as it does for just the delete kit ... plus you have the new timing kit, and the OEM water pump ...
PJ, if you wanted to, I suppose you could just cut of the balance shaft and leave the gears and bearing surface in the block still. Of course, With all balance shaft removal choices, you will need to drill into the block about mid way through and plug a pressurized oil port. But honestly now, enough about the motor, how about the turbo and such? What turbo are you using, how you going to mount it, where you going to mount it, how are you running the I/C pipes, what intake manifold, 4 or 8 injectors, what size injectors, what kind of fuel, and so on....
Street-Legal 2003 Sunfire 10.58 @ 139 MPH
lol ^^
Looks great PJ... Im very exited for your ### hp goal
That car is craving boost
Cant wait for you to bring the beast back up here.
Adam Hahn wrote:PJ, if you wanted to, I suppose you could just cut of the balance shaft and leave the gears and bearing surface in the block still. Of course, With all balance shaft removal choices, you will need to drill into the block about mid way through and plug a pressurized oil port. But honestly now, enough about the motor, how about the turbo and such? What turbo are you using, how you going to mount it, where you going to mount it, how are you running the I/C pipes, what intake manifold, 4 or 8 injectors, what size injectors, what kind of fuel, and so on....
I'll decide on how to eliminate the balance shafts when the time comes.. I have a few options
the turbo is a bit up in the air.. I have one of the Hahn manifolds but it has an external gate provision on it (apparently a one-off you guys did)
if I run this manifold, I'll be using a garret t3 60-1 or a GT35/40r and a TiAL 44mm wastegate
there's another manifold that's caught my eye thats a bit more like a header, and drapes the turbo DSM style... I can get this with a T4 flange.. if thats the case I'd want to use a GT40r with the same 44mm wastegate from TiAL
2.5" intercooler pipes so it matches the compressor out, 4 ply silicon couplers with t-bolt clamps
the intercooler in my signature probably won't be big enough..
I'm going to try for 4 injectors, but I do plan on running a staged injection using 8 injectors
the fuel system is going to consist of
-sumped 95-99 steel tank
-external aeromotive A1000 fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator
-twist-lok hoses
-saturn motorsports fuel rail(s)
either 1000cc injectors in a single rail or if i end up using a staged injection, a set of 440cc injectors in the primary rail and a set of 1000cc injectors in the secondary rail
fuel is going to be 93 pump primarily, but for high boost will be a mix of 93 and race gas
planning isn't worth much, I have a rough idea of what I want to accomplish and a nice collection of parts but when it comes down to the nitty gritty, I don't know for sure whats going to happen. To date, nobody's used this combination of parts before.. but I just read that the eagle cranks are used in the GM all motor drag engines that just won some boat races and spin up to 10,000rpm.. which is pretty much where I want to go depending on where the power in this combination takes me.
I want to try cleaning up my patriot head and giving it one more go with this motor, but I may do an LSJ head conversion straight off to save myself a few headaches (after a port job of course).
thats still a long ways off, the next project after the short block is completed is the transmission/ axles.. then the fuel setup, then the headwork, then finally the turbo system.
I'm hoping to have it close to running by march.
Wow, bit off more than I could chew apparently...Seems like you have a good working idea, not that I didn't expect you too lol. If you want to keep your car street able like you mention in your profile, I HIGHLY suggest 8 injectors so your car will behave nicely on the street unboosted.
I am a little nervous about the GT40R and 93 pump gas...seems a bit sketchy to me even for low boost. You may be running the same boost as a smaller turbo, but you are definitely pushing ALOT more volume of air into our relatively small 4 cylinders. For the street, Im not saying run 100+ octane cause only a fool would pay so much for gas, but lets be honest, how effective and often do you think you would be boosting the car with a GT40R. The turbo takes a year and a day to spool if you're just cruising along and want to hit it. IMO, Safe then sorry, that's why we prefer running C16.
Street-Legal 2003 Sunfire 10.58 @ 139 MPH
depending on wether or not you really wanna break that 400hp barrier u could always just go with a very cheap 16G off a dsm lol. good for 380hp.....then it breaks lol
400hp is gonna be a thing of the past when me and pj are done with our builds.
Bonnett wrote:400hp is gonna be a thing of the past when me and pj are done with our builds.
kinda like it already is for us ld9 guys already
Blew it up, build numbers coming soon
then should i say 500hp lol
PJ...... good luck man!!! Sounds like an awesome project!
GT35R FTW!!!
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
