Yeah, I just blew the original engine in my 2005 Sunfire. The thing is, I don't know what the hell went wrong either, and I'm hoping someone out there has an idea of what happened, or if anyone has any suggestions on how to prevent this with my new engine.
I'm running a big 16G turbo, set at 7psi of boost, using HPTuners for fuel management. I was at part throttle in 2nd gear, about 3,000 rpms, maybe 2 psi on my guage, and all of a sudden rod #2 let go, and I mean shattered. It blew a hole through both the front and back sides of the block, and took out a nice section of the oil pan too. There are pieces of rod and piston scattered throughout the land. Anyways, I don't see what could have caused it to just let go like that. I was at a decent AFR (12.6:1) and there was no detectible knock, the rod just let go. I've got the engine tore down, and the head is still good, although there are a couple of bent valves on #2, and the other 3 pistons are in great shape. Hell, I even think the crank is still good!!! Also, I've only been tuned and boosted for maybe 3 months tops.
Now I know that going with forged internals is the best route, and when I get a spare good block, I'm going to start building it up. For now I'm going with another stock Eco out of an 02 Grand Am wih 20K miles on it. Does anyone have any ideas of how I can keep this one together for longer than 3 months, short of disconnecting the wastegate actuator arm??? Haha. Thanks for any and all info.
Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!
@!#$ luck??? Guys are running alot more with no issues at all..sucks big time..
Roofy wrote:using HPTuners for fuel management
What size injectors? And that's it for fuel...HPT and larger injectors?
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450WHP Turbo Ecotec swap in the works...
Ya, I had the car tuned using HPTuners, and I'm running Accell 44 lb/hr injectors, Champion SRT-4 sparkplugs, and an Innovate WBO2 for air.fuel ratio monitoring.
Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!
Are you running a faked 2 BAR MAP or something? How does it know to send extra fuel when it sees boost? Or is it just tuned so that the injectors deliver X amount of fuel at a given RPM?
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450WHP Turbo Ecotec swap in the works...
Well the afr seems ok for the boost. I've learned that anything above 11:8.1 I was seeing knock, could be different from you. Thats extremely odd almost like a defect. Did you ever accidentally hit the limiter and stay on it before?
Man that blows my mind, never heard of that, its like a freak!
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Hmm nice to hear someone that had the same problem I had. Exact same rod - exploded and send the rod out the front and back of the motor. made a nice fire ball going down the highway too.... I too would love to know why .... Dyno tuned, Hptuned and plenty of fuel was available and AFR's were good. your the only other person (other than GM) that I have heard of this happening to.
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Sounds like you may have been leaning out in partial throttle, AFR was not just 12.6 (probably too high even under boost), do you have any logs you can show us?
I tend to see some knock with stock timing in boost w/ anything over 12.2afr depending on atmospheric conditions.
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Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Downpipe w/ Cutout | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |
Spilner521 wrote:Are you running a faked 2 BAR MAP or something? How does it know to send extra fuel when it sees boost? Or is it just tuned so that the injectors deliver X amount of fuel at a given RPM?
I agree...Do you have some type of FMU set-up ? Any idea what you're fuel pressure is like ?
i'm going to go out on a limb here and say your issue was oil-related. were your return and pump in good shape when you took it apart? 12.60 is fine for partial throttle, even under only 2psi on a 16g. i can't see fuel being a blame if what you said is true.
Blew it up, build numbers coming soon
slvr05cav wrote:Spilner521 wrote:Are you running a faked 2 BAR MAP or something? How does it know to send extra fuel when it sees boost? Or is it just tuned so that the injectors deliver X amount of fuel at a given RPM?
I agree...Do you have some type of FMU set-up ? Any idea what you're fuel pressure is like ?
It really doesn't matter. if the car's been running 44lb'ers for over three months, trapping 101, all while being dailyed, i would assume it has at least a halfway decent tune. If fuel is the issue in any car, they dont blow up catastrophically in a scenerio like this. Especially at a 12.60 afr at 2psi out of that turbo. I smashed two rods deep into redline on 12psi in 5th gear, and the car was nowhere near perfectly tuned. I could be wrong, but i'd have to say we should start looking into failures rather than tuning after three months of abuse.
Blew it up, build numbers coming soon
i'd be hard pressed to call it a tuning issue... most times, thats when you crack off a piece of piston, not trash a rod. Was it a mid-beam failure or did it come apart at the cap? I'm assuming since the crank is fine that the big end was still bolted on and the rod came apart in the middle, which is definitely odd. Could have been fatigue that finally caught up to you, or it could have just been a defect in the metal from the factory that was lying in wait. My buddy's D16 threw a rod while bone stock, with relatively low mileage, just cruising and broke mid beam.... just like in your case, no one had ever heard of it happening before. Probably just a case of crappy luck but i'd make sure to run a few logs of knock sensor and wideband voltage and look for anything weird in that area of the map once you get her back together.
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'Nuff said
98redcavz24 (LD9Stunner) wrote:slvr05cav wrote:Spilner521 wrote:Are you running a faked 2 BAR MAP or something? How does it know to send extra fuel when it sees boost? Or is it just tuned so that the injectors deliver X amount of fuel at a given RPM?
I agree...Do you have some type of FMU set-up ? Any idea what you're fuel pressure is like ?
It really doesn't matter. if the car's been running 44lb'ers for over three months, trapping 101, all while being dailyed, i would assume it has at least a halfway decent tune. If fuel is the issue in any car, they dont blow up catastrophically in a scenerio like this. Especially at a 12.60 afr at 2psi out of that turbo. I smashed two rods deep into redline on 12psi in 5th gear, and the car was nowhere near perfectly tuned. I could be wrong, but i'd have to say we should start looking into failures rather than tuning after three months of abuse.
Very true. Those AFR's at part throttle and light boost should not cause that kind of failure. As I read it again, and the other responses, I'm starting to think it was just a defective part.
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450WHP Turbo Ecotec swap in the works...
If you can go through the datalogging og your EMS then that will tell the truth. Sounds to me like a fluke however. Prestressed motor internals saw a directional force it didn't like and let go.
Fabricator X
I've seen a grandma-driven Eco have the exact same thing happen, with only 18,000km on it. Has nothing to do with fuel, or even boost, as far as I can see it. Just a bad part. That's crap luck, sorry to hear.
14.330 @ 96.37mph
Yeah, I'm sure that tuning wasnt the issue, WhininZ did a great job.
. I was only part throttle in 2nd gear, not even 30%, and I was getting ready to shift into 3rd, so I wasn't even close to harping on the car. And I don't believe it was a piston fault, as I checked all 3 of the other remaining pistons, and they are in absolutely perfect shape. The end piece of the rod that is still bolted to the crank spins freely around the crank with no roughness, so a spun rod bearing wasn't an issue, and I think that that would rule out an oiling problem as well, but correct me if I'm wrong. From what I can gather of the remaining pieces of the piston and rod, it looks like the #2 rod may have either stretched and snapped, or bent and snapped, it is kind of hard to tell though, as everything is pretty much demolished. What I did notice though, is it wasn't a clean break, the rod pieces look as of they were stressed and bent, not an instant snap.
Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!
I've heard # 2 has problems in some ecos
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Hmm another eco with a snapped rod
12.770 @ 111.99 Intercooled Eaton M62
its simple as this...
engine thoughts "this guy is a complete dick. all he does is run me all over boosting everywhere he goes. Screw this, and screw this guy! (insert boom noise here)
Mike sent me pictures....the hole in the front side of the block is HUUUUGE. Looks to be 6-8" long in front
That sucks to hear man...
I really hope it was a freak accident.
2004 Cavalier
13.2@105........
Mods...
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Ya me 2...
Paul, there is also a nice matching hole on the back side of the motor as well. The only difference is that the rod didn't push the balance shaft out of the block like it did on the front side.
Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!
I agree with posts above, detonation from tuning issues usually causes piston/ring/valve and seat damage. Lack of oil on lower rotating assembly causes bearing and rod issues. But you mentioned that the end still attached at the bearing spins freely, any idea if your piston seized in the chamber? I've seen a V8 with a bent rod caused by the piston seizing at half stroke.
OVH notec, I wonder if the 2200 iron block would have faired any better than aluminum...
get rid of the SRT plugs...............
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Nah, the piston walls, except for the bottom of cylinder # 2, of course, were/are in great shape. There are even still cross-hatch marks on the cylinder walls, I think the oil was just fine, and I'm officially blaming it on a casting defect, and im going to be writing a nice letter to GM about that too.
Publikdstrbnce wrote:get rid of the SRT plugs...............
Why do you say that??? Alot of Ecotec guys recommend them,a nd the 3 other plugs are in great shape. Do you have a better recommendation???
Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!
