Hello all. I am new to the site and looking for any help people can throw at me. I am in the process of tracking down odds and ends for a custom turbo kit. I have friends with turbo cars who are willing to help with the work. The questions I have are how much boost will the fuel system support with out major changes ( ie. injectors and pump) second would there be a problem if the engine has over 100,000 miles? Also can anyone tell me if there is a good reputable store where i can purchase fuel management products and know that I am recieving a good quality product if upgrade to pump and injectors is necessary? With the amount of miles on the car I am alittle worried does any one think this is a 100% bad idea? Lastly if anyone can recomend parts they have used that work or part numers from sites they feel confident in it would be appreciated.. Thank you all for your help in advance..
Im in the process of doing a turbo install on a 2.2l with over 100,000 miles. I plan to sit at 210 hp with these mods (besides turbo)
FMU and Injectors
The rest i am leaving stock besides the turbo stuff.
Good luck im still shopping for my injectors so i cant help u there.
im hoping to start my turbo build sometime this spring... im not even planning on my nitrous build anymore.... ill just jump straight to boost.
i have a similar situation my 00 cav has 90K (just crossed it sunday) and i have a friend with a turbo that fits (from his old cav) my cav is a 2200 would it be safe to turbo a car with this many miles? would i need to build anything up in order to do so?
Herb Wilson wrote:i have a similar situation my 00 cav has 90K (just crossed it sunday) and i have a friend with a turbo that fits (from his old cav) my cav is a 2200 would it be safe to turbo a car with this many miles? would i need to build anything up in order to do so?
Well, you would need to build something up if you wanted to hit some high numbers, but if you stick to around 200 hp you're going to be fine. Im doing a full tune-up on mine right after I turbo it. If you're on a stock clutch get that thing outa of there its the only real problem I could see. Im putting in a stage 1 clutch masters for this.
Hope I Helped.
Chris
I'm in the process of doing a 99 2200 biuld up from bottom to top including turbo setup. Depends on how much you want to push over 200-250 or so you want to build your motor up.
i just want to push it to about 200 hp... i think that would be a drastic improvement.. and about the clutch... parents got me this car (its an automatic) ...
Ill just throw this out there to all you 2200 guys, the cast pistons in our cars are "supposedly" rated at 190hp. As you've seen on here a few members have hit above that ok. Mine broke at 200hp on the dot, with no detonation or predetermined factors. FYI. An FMU will do wonders to keep you from leaning out for awhile, but you'll deffinatly need new injectors past 8 psi i believe as ours are like 19lbs/hr. I cant remember when i first changed mine out sorry, but I wouldnt run the stock ones past 6. You'll need to run ~10lbs effectively to make around 200hp.
The stock pump aint great either, I changed mine after 10lbs just to be safe, maybe someone else can chime in on when theres gave out. You can get a Walbro 255l/ph for like 100 bucks and there "sort" of easy to install so thats not a huge deal. Injectors are also like a 15 minute install, you shouldnt be afraid of them, only the price.
As for the 100,000 miles..well.. hard to say, some engines take well, some break ring lands on 5lbs. Just know what your getting into, the more power you make directly increases the likelyhood somethings going to break. Just go into it knowing that the worst could happen, so be prepared for a rebuild if necessary.
will a new fuel injector need different lines/connections? i need to replace mine soon anyway for the simple fact that ive got 90K on my engine and they have never been considered... i just want to replace them before i have a problem... what is a good set to replace them with? i may just build up the engine and skip the turbo... it seems like a decent bit more pressure than its worth at this point... when i get a new car however i plan on keepin my J and using it as a project car... then all the stops are out... for now im tryin to power up without blowing out
thanks cory.
Na, new injectors just plug right in assuming you get the same type. The only thing you have to know is whether you have high impedence or low impedence, which REALLY sucks on our specific year because they switched in mid 99
Look on the sticker on the side of your door for your manufactur date, for the life of me I cant remember right now if they switched from low to high or not. I think thats how it went, but do a search to make sure, it shouldnt be hard to find. You can get new ones from RC engineering, I've also found that you can get MSD type from summit that will work, If your on a budget you can get some out of older cars, ford red top/green tops etc. But ive never done that so what years and models is beyond me.
Now you have to realize there wont be much purpose in replacing them with the stock size, because if you go turbo you'll have to go bigger anyway, however, you can exactly run bigger injectors with out the turbo without some way of downscaling them, like an APexi-safcII or the like, so really I would wait to replace the injectors til you do the turbo build and hope the stock ones will make it that far.
You can build the motor for an N/A car, but in all honosty, I would go turbo. Now this is my opinion, but you have to realize our limitations. We're single overhead cam engines (technically the cams in the block on ours but you get the point) the 2.4 and ECO guys have a big advantage when it comes to airflow, so they can make some decent numbers N/A. For us 2.2 guys its going to be a lot harder, and I've honostly never seen it come out being worth it in the end when a turbo will net you higher gains in the end. Maybe some one out there can give you a different opinion on that, but look at your limitations and start from there. Let me know if you have any more questions.
i have a turbo vw and it has 85k on the od and compression on my car is like 9.5 to 1 i think you will be fine
PPPSSSS!!!! MMMMMmmmMMM boost=yummy
Cory Forson wrote:Now you have to realize there wont be much purpose in replacing them with the stock size, because if you go turbo you'll have to go bigger anyway, however, you can exactly run bigger injectors with out the turbo without some way of downscaling them, like an APexi-safcII or the like, so really I would wait to replace the injectors til you do the turbo build and hope the stock ones will make it that far.
wrong, wrong, wrong....... the ONLY way you will properly get the bigger injectors running properly is with HPT....
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:Cory Forson wrote:Now you have to realize there wont be much purpose in replacing them with the stock size, because if you go turbo you'll have to go bigger anyway, however, you can exactly run bigger injectors with out the turbo without some way of downscaling them, like an APexi-safcII or the like, so really I would wait to replace the injectors til you do the turbo build and hope the stock ones will make it that far.
wrong, wrong, wrong....... the ONLY way you will properly get the bigger injectors running properly is with HPT....
or a stand-alone...
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:Cory Forson wrote:Now you have to realize there wont be much purpose in replacing them with the stock size, because if you go turbo you'll have to go bigger anyway, however, you can exactly run bigger injectors with out the turbo without some way of downscaling them, like an APexi-safcII or the like, so really I would wait to replace the injectors til you do the turbo build and hope the stock ones will make it that far.
wrong, wrong, wrong....... the ONLY way you will properly get the bigger injectors running properly is with HPT....
Sigh, what an assinine statement, as I have both an apexi and HPT, I know for a fact you can run larger injectors with an apexi, and an FMU, its not that hard. I did it fine up to 13 lbs of boost. Care to try and proove me wrong? You obviously didnt even read the guys post or you would see he's on a budget, and OBVIOUSLY cant afford HPT, not to mention he wont need it for the small amounts of boost he wants to run. I know all about you, you're the guy who trashes all piggyback units, and those who use them because its not "real tuning", grow up and get over yourself. Different means to the same end.
Cory Forson wrote:ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:Cory Forson wrote:Now you have to realize there wont be much purpose in replacing them with the stock size, because if you go turbo you'll have to go bigger anyway, however, you can exactly run bigger injectors with out the turbo without some way of downscaling them, like an APexi-safcII or the like, so really I would wait to replace the injectors til you do the turbo build and hope the stock ones will make it that far.
wrong, wrong, wrong....... the ONLY way you will properly get the bigger injectors running properly is with HPT....
Sigh, what an assinine statement, as I have both an apexi and HPT, I know for a fact you can run larger injectors with an apexi, and an FMU, its not that hard. I did it fine up to 13 lbs of boost. Care to try and proove me wrong? You obviously didnt even read the guys post or you would see he's on a budget, and OBVIOUSLY cant afford HPT, not to mention he wont need it for the small amounts of boost he wants to run. I know all about you, you're the guy who trashes all piggyback units, and those who use them because its not "real tuning", grow up and get over yourself. Different means to the same end.
ok then son, since you know all about me, I better just shut my mouth with my "vast array of knowledge" and agree with everything you say..... First off, where in the hell have I ever trashed anybody and "all" piggyback systems??? I have used plenty of them on past projects/customers cars... I do know what does and what doesnt work.... BTW, if your Apexi unit worked so well, why did you "waste" your hard earned money on HTP??? Il check for a response later.... Im going to go sit and cry in the corner while I try to "get over myslelf"
Anybody else care to chime in....
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
SAFC sucks for non-linear boost (like from a turbo). period.
e-manage is flaky, FMU is limited... just say no to piggy-backs.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
I understand that HPT is a fairly expensive program, but on the same thought. how much did you pay for your exhaust or things such as a name brand cold air intake... etc i would say that buying the program or paying to have someone else tune it for you, is a much more efficient way of spending money.
And i do completely understand that moneys tight, im currently building a turbo kit for my 2200 and its taken time but ive spent that extra time saving up money making sure to spend money in the right places. yes you can always do a piggy back system if you want to risk it, but i 100% back up HPT. I would also listen to the advice of both ImPhat0260 and OHV notec, as they are both very knowledgeable in this area.
Do it right the first time!
I'm selling my turbo kit with intercooler from my 2200 i bought a cobalt a year ago and the cavy just sits there now so i have everything you need for a turbo set up
even brand new never used RC injectors 310cc. i want 300 for the injectors and clips.make me a offer on the turbo kit
cavtuner wrote:I'm selling my turbo kit with intercooler from my 2200 i bought a cobalt a year ago and the cavy just sits there now so i have everything you need for a turbo set up
even brand new never used RC injectors 310cc. i want 300 for the injectors and clips.make me a offer on the turbo kit
300 for the injectors? good luck...
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:Cory Forson wrote:ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:Cory Forson wrote:Now you have to realize there wont be much purpose in replacing them with the stock size, because if you go turbo you'll have to go bigger anyway, however, you can exactly run bigger injectors with out the turbo without some way of downscaling them, like an APexi-safcII or the like, so really I would wait to replace the injectors til you do the turbo build and hope the stock ones will make it that far.
wrong, wrong, wrong....... the ONLY way you will properly get the bigger injectors running properly is with HPT....
Sigh, what an assinine statement, as I have both an apexi and HPT, I know for a fact you can run larger injectors with an apexi, and an FMU, its not that hard. I did it fine up to 13 lbs of boost. Care to try and proove me wrong? You obviously didnt even read the guys post or you would see he's on a budget, and OBVIOUSLY cant afford HPT, not to mention he wont need it for the small amounts of boost he wants to run. I know all about you, you're the guy who trashes all piggyback units, and those who use them because its not "real tuning", grow up and get over yourself. Different means to the same end.
ok then son, since you know all about me, I better just shut my mouth with my "vast array of knowledge" and agree with everything you say..... First off, where in the hell have I ever trashed anybody and "all" piggyback systems??? I have used plenty of them on past projects/customers cars... I do know what does and what doesnt work.... BTW, if your Apexi unit worked so well, why did you "waste" your hard earned money on HTP??? Il check for a response later.... Im going to go sit and cry in the corner while I try to "get over myslelf"
Anybody else care to chime in....
Originally Posted by popeye55
ok i went out and did some changes, some were my own some were with some help. it's a 98 2.2 w/ a garret t3. stock injectors and a cartech adj.FMU
the stock tune is stock computer and turbo, the second is the current.
i am not getting the AFR where it should be so i could use some help in that and i am getting alot of KR, i take timing out but still i am getting enough i can feel it.
Are those your mods, or someone elses that you got a file from???? If they are yours, get a real set of injectors, ditch the FMU(We are tuning, that thing is a bandaid thats gonna cause more problems than its worth) and also get a better fuel pump....
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?p=65853#post65853
Originally Posted by Sever2.2turbo
I have quick question:why is having the emanage on there such a bad thing.
Imphat0260: what do you have done to your motor(turbo size,injectors ect,ect)
Ok, first off, the Emanage is a "piggy back" computer that changes what the stock VCM sees. It does nothing more than tricking the VCM by signal modification... (more to it than that, but trying to explain so you can understand).... In other words, stop questiong all of us, take it off, use the HPT only and get the thing running properly.... As far as my engine goes, here is a list.... BTW, Stock bottom end....
Engine:
Turbonetics T3 Super 60
Turbonetics Deltagate
Spearco Intercooler
TurboSmart Type1 BOV
TurboSmart Gated boost controller
Walbro 255 intank
Lucas 42.5# Injectors
Mantapart 59mm Throttlebody
Ported/Polished head
B&M Short Shifter
SPEC Stage2 clutch
Accell 8mm
HP Tuners PRO Tuning Software
AEM U.E.G.O. Wideband
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6271&highlight=ImPhat0260
Ok first off, I bought HPT because ( like many here) it was made it out to be vastly superior to piggyback units, which sadly I find to be false. I wish I would of saved my "hard earned money" and went with a stand alone. Sadly, i didnt do it right the first time. Secondly, If HPT is the only "proper" was to add more fuel, what did people do before it came out? What about 5th injector set ups? The fact is HPT is nearly useless when it comes down to boost on our ECU's. Thirdly, I still use my apexi, probably more then HPT as it does a great job for fine tuning AFR, it doesnt work miracles, it doesnt see boost, but neither does HPT, and in the end their both changing the same values anyway. Id also like to point out, by your sarcastic comments, that im simply defending my position. I found your "wrong wrong wrong" tone to be very malice in nature. Just because you think HPT is gods gift to tuning doesnt mean there still arnt other methods, that are just as effective if not more. People we're tuning these cars long before HPT came around. My apologies to the original poster for this thread getting hijacked, but people like this are the exact reason I left the org to begin with.
Quote:
SAFC sucks for non-linear boost (like from a turbo). period.
e-manage is flaky, FMU is limited... just say no to piggy-backs.
So when did HPT start seeing non-linear boost? You do realize their changing the exact same values right?
