Hi there. I've already searched extensively for this but cant find any answers to my questions. I have a 2002 sunfire sedan auto with the 2200 motor w/ on 14,000 miles on the car and motor. Got it form a grandpa lol. anyway I'm looking into turbo charging this car. This is my daily driver, but my questions are this: with a normal turbo setup intercooled and mild head porting with stock internals and valve train what kind of hp numbers and tq can I real world expect to see? and what are you guys getting for gas milage with a turbo on a 2200 motor? any insight and knowledge would be great. my goal is to make a mid to low 14 second daily driver sedan. any and all tips would be great. thanks.
There really is no magic number, which is why you won't find many answers. The numbers you make will depend on the tune, the turbo you use, all sorts of stuff. Some make less than 200 at the wheels, some have made close to 250 before blowing stuff up. On a relatively stock motor, if the tune is dead on with the proper turbo and supporting components, I see no reason you can't lay down 200whp and still have some reliability. That's pretty quick for a mostly stock engine. As far as fuel economy goes I can't tell you what kind of mileage you'll get becauase my turbo isn't finished yet, but some guys actually notice an improvement in fuel economy compared to the stock motor, while many have a decrease - prolly because they're driving the hell out of their cars. Part of it has to do with the tune and a lot of it is all about how you drive on a daily basis.
thanks for the reply, I kinda was hoping that more poeple would chime in and give me their personal accounts with a turbo 2200 as well. anyone else have any info that I can use? thanks
Well on my 2200. On 10 psi daily drivin I was makeing 230whp with a good port and polish on the head. I could have used a much better tune tho. As far a Gas Mpg goes. Its says stock until you put your foot into it which you will just to hear that turbo spool up...
thanks for the info and feedback. What are you running for your turbo setup? I would really like to know what I need to do to accomplish 200-250 whp out of my 2200 motor. I recently just picked up a spare head that I'm going to port and polish. I have a 12sec street trans am that I have built but thats not all that fun because everyone expects that to be fast. (look at my profile) I love the element of suprise and the fact that I can still drive this everyday to work. could anyone set me up with some parts companys or some more advise on how to get this done without me having to use the search key for hours on here? I'm experience veteran on small and big block chevy's but when it comes to squeezing all the power possible out of these 4 cylinders I dont want to go down the wrong path. After all, you guy and gals are the experts when it comes to these small motors :-) thanks clint.
Well how about your goals first, and Budget. My gaol was for a 13 second 2200. on a some what small budget. which is hard unless you do a lot of work and fab work yourself. You say your only looking to be in the 14s. then I would suggest just buying a premade kit. Some like the Hahn kit for the 2200. You can always upgrade as your need/desires change.
I peiced my setup together myself. which can be cheaper if you know what your doing.
yeah i'm looking to be deep into the 14's and still retain good realiable street characteristics. I have a a decent budget but as everyone knows the cheaper the better. I understand that getting a kit would be a good if not great idea but what about the boost controller and timing and all of the other electroinc gadgets that I will need? what are good affordable brands? when it comes to carbs and stroked v8's I eat and sleep them, but fuel injection is another story. I do a nice dyno shop about 30 miles from my house so I could go there and I guess get it tuned? or how are all of you tunning your cars?
Well to tell you the truth. I would buy a premade kit and save your self all the headache's. There are cheap/expensive boost controllers that can always be added after the fact if you feel you want more boost. You can get a low cost manual one, or and expensive electric one. As fas as timing and such, if your not running a high boost psi its not that big of a deal. any thing under 7psi you should be fine with stock timing. If you feel your going to be running more than that invest in the MSD DIS 2. it allows you to retard timing and such.
7psi with a good ported head and a good tune will put you in the 14s easy. and keep you pretty reliable for daily driving.
10psi and a ok tune and i make 185hp and 191tq i have no idea how these other guys are making so much power out of a stock 2200. as far as quarter mile it should be in low to mid 14 but thats only a comparison to a civic hatch that ran that time. and i beat him. but i wont know for sure until i get there. but if you do turbo charge i will quote "fuel is king, queen, and town drunk"-shifted. get hptuners!!!....and the fuel accessories of course.
^^^ You better have your car looked at if thats all your making on 10psi.. not trying to be a dick either. I made
160whp and 189lbs on 5 psi, while misfiring on the dyno. there were at least 10 other org members there to who saw me do it. And it was done on a DynoJet too.
I was stock bottom end with the following: Really good Ported & Polished Head. Tubular Turbo manifold from Cav. Connections. MIS DIS2. with MSD coils and interface blocks. Super 60 Turbo. Cartech Adjustable Fmu. Z24 24lb injectors. Custom 2.5 inch down pipe. 2.25 Mandrel bend RK sport Magnaflow mufflers, with 24 inch Resonator. NGK TR6 plugs gaped at .35. I was 5 speed too, if that matters a whole lot.
I upped it to 10psi for Daily driving after putting in a set of S/c 31lb Gm injectors.
see now this is what i'm looking for, people who have turbo'd their 2200 and are saying what they are running for a setup. I'm not here to copy anybody but like I said I'm just trying to make one @!#$ sweet sleeper that I can still drive to work everday and leave my trans am for the track days. Ken 5.7 what are you running for electronics and fuel management? are you using that "hp tuner"? and how important is it to have one? and as far as a "good tune" I'm confused here. like my trans am I can just put it on the dyno and adjust the timing and the jets in the carb and make advances and such but with these computer controlled cars if I take it to the dyno shop can they tune it or do I need to buy special stuff? I've tired searching but if anyone has links or such I'll be happy to read them. thanks again for all the input and advise.
Clint Pearson wrote:Ken 5.7 what are you running for electronics and fuel management? are you using that "hp tuner"? and how important is it to have one? and as far as a "good tune" I'm confused here. like my trans am I can just put it on the dyno and adjust the timing and the jets in the carb and make advances and such but with these computer controlled cars if I take it to the dyno shop can they tune it or do I need to buy special stuff? I've tired searching but if anyone has links or such I'll be happy to read them. thanks again for all the input and advise.
Ken no longer has a Cavalier, but from what I recall, he was using band-aid (mechanical) tuning methods. This would include larger injectors, an adjustable fuel pressure regulator to allow the injectors to idle, and a rising rate fuel pressure regulator to increase fuel with regard to boost pressure.
TUNING IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU CAN DO WITH A TURBO SETUP. PERIOD. So yes, you do need it (otherwise you end up like me lol).
HP Tuners is a program that allows you to modify the programming in your stock ECU, so all you would really need are the larger injectors and a 2-3 bar MAP sensor (which you would have to scale). You can read the sticky threads in the Tuning forum for more info on this product. This wasn't out when Ken had his car, otherwise I'm sure he would have been using it.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
I HAD a turbo 2200 3spd auto. made 124whp and 138 wtrq on 4psi..keep in mind my was also a junkyard HMT set-up. so i used a smaller turbo, and also had a few problems on the dyno. including the wastegate leaking so i wouldn't hit any more than 4psi at 4000rpms...
for tuning i used ford red tops i got out a ford supercoupe.. they are 30 lb/hr injectors (roughly the same as the GM s/c injectors). and Megasquirt to control fuel only. I had no timing mods besides colder plugs gapped at .030"
and had a mildly ported head also. which when installed and fixed my wastegate problem, i was running 12psi. never got it to the track though so i can't say times.. granted i have spectulations but there just that spectulations.
2200 (stock bottom end), 10psi with a cracked mani/ slipping clutch... I put down 244whp/ 256wtq..... It has more in it, just need to fix the mani/clutch/rear main seal..... Its all in the tuning.... HPT is your friend if you know how to use it...
Quote:
Turbonetics T3 Super 60
Turbonetics Deltagate
Spearco Intercooler
TurboSmart Type1 BOV
TurboSmart Gated boost controller
Walbro 255 intank
MSD booster pump
Lucas 42.5# Injectors
Mantapart 59mm Throttlebody
Ported/Polished head
Polished rocker cover
B&M Short Shifter
SPEC Stage2 clutch
Accell 8mm
HP Tuners PRO Tuning Software
AEM U.E.G.O. Wideband
Tuned by P&P Tuning (owner/operator)
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
that thing is sweet.^^^^ hey one quick question for ya, how long did were you boosted at 10 psi before your clutch took a dump?
Jeff F wrote:that thing is sweet.^^^^ hey one quick question for ya, how long did were you boosted at 10 psi before your clutch took a dump?
Its been there quite a while... The rear main seal is leaking causing most of the slippage.... Honestly, I don't believe that the clutch was designed for what I putting to it... TIme for something stronger...
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 Now that is what I'm talking about for a setup. looking at your pics it looks super clean and simple. Nearly 250 hp on a stock bottom end? WOW. How many miles have you put on it under that much boost? my car only has 14,000 miles on it right now. Is it still dependable? and what are you getting for gas milage? that prolly sounds stupid but I'm just curious and would like to know what somebody is getting with that kind of setup. another question... do you have any part numbers on your setup so I could order some of them? all the piping I will do myself. Now for the tuning, do i need to get hp tuners or will the dyno shop be able to tune my car with what they have?
Clint Pearson wrote:ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 Now that is what I'm talking about for a setup. looking at your pics it looks super clean and simple. Nearly 250 hp on a stock bottom end? WOW. How many miles have you put on it under that much boost? my car only has 14,000 miles on it right now. Is it still dependable? and what are you getting for gas milage? that prolly sounds stupid but I'm just curious and would like to know what somebody is getting with that kind of setup. another question... do you have any part numbers on your setup so I could order some of them? all the piping I will do myself. Now for the tuning, do i need to get hp tuners or will the dyno shop be able to tune my car with what they have?
I boosted the car back in late 02/ early 03. The car 40-50K on it with the Turbo(cant tell you exactly, odometer wont light up) I can tell you that I used to drive it every week from Ohio to STL w/no problems for over 2 years before I moved.... The car used to eat gas more when I used the FMU and smaller injectors (Before HPT was released), but now I have it tuned on 42.5# injectors and it starts right up w/ no hesitation.... Gas milage now is not too bad(as long as your foot is not in it all the time
)I dont't have any part #s so to speak, but the Turbo and FMIC core are Turbonetics/Spearco..... All piping and the mani is custom made..... As far as you getting it tuned, HPT is the only way to go if you are not wanting to install a costly Standalone or MS. You would need to check with your "Tuner" and see if they have HPT or if they need to use yours.....
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
Ken- thanks for the pics. Seeing that nice turbo is really making my wheels turn and wanting to start ordering parts. Your turbo looks huge. everyone seems to be running different size turbos and impeller sizes. You guys have made some really impressive numbers on a stock bottome end. I'd like to get as much advise as I can from all of you. I've been reading up on searches but i'm still gonna have questions sooner or later. Ken- do you remember any part numbers or what parts specific you used? I have some sweet hook ups from distrubitors so if I could get part numbers or what part exactly were used I can start spending money right away. I dont really want to order a pre fabed kit since my way will save a ton of money. I'll be gone on vacation till sunday so if i dont respond thats why.
I remember one time ken i asked you how your car was running and you told me GREAT like a raped ape with a bannana hanging out of its a$$..
LOL
you helped me a ton when i had questions...
however here is pix of my setup... I like it but it spiked to 15 psi the other day so I think a ring went. big smoke everywhere...
I like it i hung with a turbo integra till some massive fuel issue i had. and I had the srt4 guys watching me because I had a jump on them till they hit 3rd...
horsepower is how hard you hit the wall, Torque is how far you push the wall with you
^^^^^^ Still one my Favorite 2.2 engine bays....
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
my turn now!
here its mine, i changed lots of things, like where the blow off valve is, im runnig 5 psi now, no idea of how many hp im pulling now, i need bigger injectors and a good tuning (on spring), will bring my cavy at the dyno on march,
-clint-
heres a pic of my setup i had on my 2200. I dont know if the link will work because i havent posted on the ORG in so long i pretty much forgot how to use it, lol. If it doesnt work just run a search in the boost forum for "2200 lovers" and u can see a pic of my setup. Moral of this whole thing is that if you are looking for a reletively easy all-in-one sorta package for your 2200, everything in the pic is for sale to include internals with the exception of pistons. Its pretty much every little thing you could ever need to boost a 2200 only you wont have to go through months of banging your head on the wall trying to find parts and solutions, lol
http://img355.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10105727yc.jpg
..
ASE Master Certified Automotive Technician
He are a few pics of my setup, mind you these are older pics. i had more updated and completed pics, but i have to find them.
