After 2 years of research i finally took the plunge... i put together a turbo kit. i am looking for any sugestions or comments you may have to help me in this process. please feel free to criticize, but give me a reason why you say it (i have no problem dealing with someone saying i am an idiot, but prove to me that you know what you are talking about, and help me FIX THE PROBLEM!!!)

Part list:
XS T3 turbo
johnyracecar FMIC
Tial wastegate (6lb spring)
manifold w/wastegate welds (custom made from some Florida shop
Greddy type S BOV
oil feed/ return kit
bulk of vacuum line
bulk of charge piping
silicone boots
hose clamps
all gaskets
OBX 8:1 FMU
downpipe flange

NOW.. the tricky part.

Do i NEED injectors or no (i have heard people swear both ways they are right)?

Is there a need to get the thing DynoTuned? (where can i do this?)

are there any sensors that i need to bypass or anything like that? (i have read the archived forums, and i can NOT find one straight answer in any of them)

OPEN TO ANY OTHER TIPS YOU CAN HELP ME WITH!!!!
thank you in advance -Dave-

yes dude get injectors thats the best way to go dont leave it like that without them and u may need an fpr depending on the size so u can turn them down a bit so u can idle alright, see ya hope it goes well!

I am building my turbo kit custom right now... I am no pro, but things that i bought that I dont see on your list include:

2bar Map Sensor - msd 2312 i read on the forums work fine in our cars, they dont snap in to the stock harness but that also dont cost 250 like the GM one

IAT Sensor (A lot of people dont even use this, but i am listing everything i got that was no on your list )

Wideband o2 Sensor w/some way of seeing the afr (Gauge, Laptop) - so that you know if you are lean or rich

Definitely get injectors, thats unless you want to have fuel problems I got ford/bosch green tops . . . . . then you need injector clips... usually the site selling the injectors have the clips. you need a afpr to control the bigger injectors at idle... aeromotive and accel make some that fit j-bodys i dont know the model number for your car though

I hope this helped you out! This is all i can think of right now! You should type in these parts on the forum search and find out what is the best solution for you!


|Forged 8.9:1 Wiseco Pistons|Forged Eagle Rods|HPTuners|60trim|Tial Wastegate|
|Precision Intercooler|2.5" Exhaust|2.5" Charge Pipes|630CC Mototron Injectors|
|Stock: Fuel Pump, Transmission, Manifold, TB, Head, Head Gasket, Ignition, Suspension...|

How much boost are you planning to run? On 6psi you could probably do with stock injectors. Anything more then you will need bigger injectors.

Getting the car tuned is a good idea so the motor can last. Also you need things to tune. With what you have listed the most that could be done is well really nothing. You listed a 8:1 FMU. A adjustable FMU would be better so you can adjust the amount of fuel. Your best option would be getting the HPTuners software and haveing the car tuned by someone who knows what they are doing. To tune you need things to adjust as well readings for feedback (wideband O2 sensor). Most Dyno shops have these. You can also buy one your self, but you need to know what to change, and how to tune. Would be better off at the shop thatknows how to tune.

Quote:

IAT Sensor (A lot of people dont even use this, but i am listing everything i got that was no on your list )

Our cars already have a IAT sensor, so of course you would use it. now a 2.3 style IAT (screw in type) is not a bad idea.



FU Tuning

thanks a lot for all the help. your input is great!

now for the problems:

1) 2 people say i need the injectors, and one who says i don't. lol!!! no matter i will probably get some anyway, but are there specific types i should look for? and where can i find them cheap?

2) will any old fpr work ok or would i need a type specific? how would i know (without taking it in) what to adjust it to? besides that, a fpr works on vacuum, so what would be the idea behind a new one? 100% vacuum = 100% flow anyway right?

3)8:1fmu should be fine for 6lbs of boost. right? i don't care if i run a little rich, i just don't want to damage the engine or put up with stalling. (ok wideband o2, but i am not honestly going to ride around with my laptop looking to lean out all the time)

4) for what i am running, an upgrade from the standard 1 bar map sensor would be pointless, wouldn't it? i looked into it and from what i gather a map sensor (2 bar +) is mainly for s/c cars running past 10lbs or turbos running past 8lbs. please correct me if i am wrong. (i know most of you won't have a problem with that. lol)

Please understand, yes i am trying to do this as correctly as possable for my dumb-@ss, but i do not want to sacrifice reliability. the more complex this stuff gets the more i see problems with people frying crap out. that is why i want to run ONLY 6lbs (that will be MORE than enough to notice the boost!!!) It has been my expierence that the more basic (if done right), the more reliable and safe the outcome. just looking for the extra kick, not a race car.


ANYTHING you can think of helps. i apreciate all of you spending your time on me, even if i am hopeless.

Thanks again (and in advance)

----------OFF TOPIC-----------

hey, how many people ask these questions? if this thing turns out ok and all the info is there i would suggest a sticky so other idiots like myself could quit asking! the faq section is GREAT!!!, but there are a few small holes that are not completely covered. with a few more questions answered this could turn into an (advanced LFAQ)
Less Frequently (but still important) Asked Questions

just a thought, but seriously, there is a HUGE gap between 100% noob posts, and advanced (Aristotle is an idiot) posts. This is an intermediate thread with some good questions (trust me i have searched pretty well) and very helpful input, and it is only like 3 posts strong.

Ok you are somewhat on the right track and it would help you saying that you are working with LD9.
If I am correct you are running high impedance injectors so Ford brown tops are out of question, you will need some kinda of high injector. If I am wrong disregard I haven't messed with a LD9 in almost 2 years or so, but still remember a lot.
You are deff gonna need a fuel pump do it right, so you don't have to worry since you are gonna be putting extra stress on it raising the fuel pressure.
As for what Higgins said about the FPR it would be nice, and the fuel gauge to be able to mess with the fuel.
Also, since LD9 doesn't have a shrader valve you are gonna need to drill the fuel rail and tap it to get the gauge on it.

So get some 310 cc injectors for now, like GM out of a GM supercharged set up, bigger pump, and FPR, I think it should do you a lot of good.
MSD if that is what you are reffering to, you will not need and it is strictly optional for the amount of boost you are running, stock system will not be bothered with 6 psi of positive pressure just get some colder plugs like some NGK's TR6 and gap tham down to (I prefer .029-.030) for your boost level, but that is STRICTLY MY preference you can do whatever YOU want.

If you can tell me if you are high or low impedance I might be able to get you some injectors.If you would like.
Take it from me you wanna run bigger ones. It is your choice however, many have been known to run those boost levels at stock injectors, will you??

As for FPR, you can get Accel, that bolts on straight on your rail, and you hook up vaccum to it and via gauge set it to what you want. Or you can get any FPR but more modifications to your rail might be needed.
I might have something for you(maybe a complete rail drilled with FPR on it, maybe) shoot me a mail.
Again, this is only if you choose to do this.

FMU depends what ratio you are gonna run on what size injectors you are gonna use.
Most people just shove the biggest disk such as 12:1 in the FMU.

So lets do the math, say you are running 45 psi of fuel at idle and 55 on Wide Open Throttle usually reffered to as WOT,
12:1 means that for every pound of positive pressure you increase fuel by 12psi!!!!!, which at 6 psi should be EXTRA, 72 psi of fuel pressure on the top of that 55 which theoretically should put you at 127psi of fuel pressure.
However most of the stock pumps crap out of even some bigger ones at about 80 psi or so, even tho some high pressure ones go up as high as 100.
So the only thing that running such a big disk in the FMU will make you do is choke before you go in boost because for the 1st 2 psi it will max out your pump and since you will be so rich at 80 psi of fuel pressure it will take care of other 4 psi.

That is why I say chose disk based on injecotrs.
I have ran as low as 1;1, which you can get by completely removing the disk out of the FMU since it has boost refference it will only raise it 1;1, but unless you are running 500+cc injecotrs I DO NOT recomend you do this.

You will not ride around with lap top in your car unless you choose to, because engines don't just lean themselves out because they want to, you usually have to lean them out yourself.
Once you set everything on the dyno you will not need to touch it anymore for the most part unless you are raising the boost, but it gets very addictive.
I ran 5-6 psi once and when I felt how good it feels, day dreamed about my boost gaige ever hitting 20 psi mark, and now it is over that many thousands of dollars later.

You will NOT need to upgrade MAP unless you are running GM reflash, your ECU will NOT understand bigger Bar MAP sensor if you just one day changed it without reflash.
1 Bar is reffered to what we have it is all vacuum up to 0 psi or in/Hg.
2 Bar is up to 14.5-14.7 psi
3 Bar is up to 29-29.4psi
4 Bar is up to 43.5-44 psi
5 Bar is up to 58-58.5 psi, roughly, but again your ECU needs to understand these to be able to do anything with them.

Only thing you might have to do if you are NOT gonna reflash is you might have to run a chack valve between your MAP sensor and manifold since it is set for all vacuum, and once it sees positive pressure it might freak out a little.

So if you have any other questions just ask, I do however have some parts that could greatly benefit you if you want PM. me or catch me on AIM S u nCavi98.
Good luck man.




Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!

Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's ----12's ----11's ----10's

ok SunCavi,
i do not know what injector i have, or how to tell.

fuel pump: GOOD POINT!!!! didn't even think of that (see this is why i posted this d@mn thead. i cover the little crap and forget the big stuff).

i did the math best i could and found that a 43lb injectors would put me at 79% efficiency with an aproximate hp of 215 peak (formula from shifted) . i think that would be ok with the 8:1 also if i understand this (and with the pump, bit wouldn't it still max out the pump[even with a 6:1???]) This is the stuff that i do not get. all the numbers do NOT add up, hence the reason i did not boost my car earlier. -but anyway- if i can find the injectors will i need clips? where can i find these items?

map: thats what i thought

check valve: ?? how can i do that?

- OK ENOUGH - i sent you an email. please let me know what is going on either here or via email. i set up a aim account so i can go that way too if i need to i have msn messenger also.

Thank you for trying, but if this crap keeps me going in circles much longer i will be selling an almost complete turbo kit for a LD9. D@MN!!!!!!!!!!!


p.s. help

Ok, I am pretty sure there is NO reason for you to sell you Turbo kit. I mean you didn't blow your motor and now you are stuck or something.
43 lbs injectors are a little too big IMO.
With those I have ran up to 13 psi and put down about 290 to the wheels DSM injecotrs to mention.

1st to cover the check valve, it is a valve that will NOT let the vacuum out so you have a vacuum leak, but it will let the pressure out so that it doesn't reach the MAP sensor.
You have a little vacuum line between your MAP and the intake manifold simply make it longer and T in a check valve or a couple if they are small.
If your next question is where can you get them, you can get them at Advance Auto Parts or anywhere.

Fuel pump, I do have a 180 litre Blazer pump that I just receintly took sitting around that supported over 300 WHP.
Let me know if interested.
As for FMU, yes even with 6:1 I am pretty sure you will be naxing out the pump but the initial couple of psi will not get shocked with extra fuel as with a 12:1 disk that is all I am saying, in your case I am pretty sure that 12:1 and 6:1 will do just as same since they are both going to rise your fuel pressure to the max output of your pump it is just the fact that the 6:1 will do it more gradualy, well at least a little more gradualy neverthless still really fast.

Here is the formula for raising the fuel pressure opposed to old pressure and such.
Say that 43 LBS injecotors are 43 lbs @ 43.5 psi of fuel pressure, every manufacturer or whoever makes the injectors have to flow them at some psi to give you the amount they push.
Some flow at 39 (like Ford I think) some at 43.5 (really common) and some at up to 58psi (my old SRT-4 injectors)
So lets assume yours are 43lbs @43.5 psi.
You are gonna run 55 psi WOT and 6:1 disk at 6 psi of boost. so 55+36=91psi.
So your pump assume craps out at worse case scenarion 70 psi.
so what you do formula wise is: new pressure divided by old pressure (70/43.5), take square root of that number.
Whatever you get multiply it by pounds that injecotrs are in your case 43 pound injecotrs.
You get 54.54 number which is 54 pound injectors. So those 43 pounders are 54 pounders at 70 psi of fuel pressure and of you want that in cc you multiply it one more time by 10.5


Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!

Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's ----12's ----11's ----10's

Sorry accident. lol
one more time by 10.5 and you get 572.
So your injecotrs are 572 cc injecotrs and given that they will not stick open by 70 psi you will have that.
Now I am pretty sure that will support more than 215 hp.
Use that formula from now on to calculate whatever.
So if your idle gets really bad and you wanna lower your fuel pressure on idle you will always have 10 more psi on WOT you can plug it in and calculate how much will you be able to support if you lower the fuel pressure.

Please make sure you understand that many factors play a role as well such as weather and efficiency of you set up and bunch of other stuff, so this is just a stab in the dark but it can help you at least understand what you are working with.

You are on the right track just figure out what injecotrs you are gonna use, FPR, and pump?, since you are I think already gonna use the FMU, keep in mind that this is by NO means the best way to go about it but given what your funds permit maybe the only way./
And I think this is plenty for what boost levels you are looking forward to.



Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!

Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's ----12's ----11's ----10's

ok i will look more at the injector situation when i get home from work today.

yes i am interested in the fuel pump SunCavi.

i am 10:1 going to just buy the stupid fpr to try to solve the problems.

thanks for the tip on the check valve.

did i miss anything???

injectors...... umm... ideas for them (brand, type, clips to fit [where and how much]) ???

thanks again

I don't really know what injectors, you can use GM injectors, I have personally made DSM ones fit or you can use RC's (they cost a lot).
I am pretty sure someone has some sitting around here that they wanna get rid of.
If you are running high impedance injectors and you wanna convert to low you can just go to junk yard and cut them off any older GM car like early 90's and solder them in your harness cause that is what I did.
You will also need a resistor box to run low impedance injectors on high impedance system.
That is what I am running.



Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!

Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's ----12's ----11's ----10's

ok. ok. ok.

99.9% sure they are high impendance injectors, so what i think i will do is just look for some injectors that will work with my setup. higgins suggested that i just use GM's s/c injectors. he said they are 310cc (so like 28.5lbs right?). that sounds like a good option. no?

ALSO- he said that with HPTuners software i could forget the fpr and fmu, as long as i had the injectors and pump to push it. sound right to you??? i have no idea!!!! i believe him, cause i hav read some of the posts he wrote and always makes sence to me, but as you can tell, i want as much advice as i can get!

put it this way i would much rather put another $1000 into this than to blow my car up! i just wanted to be able to say that i put most of the kit together myself, and hopefully learn something along the way (preferably not the HARD WAY!!!).

which brings me to my next question....does anyone know what they are doing with this software?? i have read up on it a bit and am still lost.
oh yeah, and can anyone give me a part number or place to find those injectors? (not the dealer, too expensive, and way to EASY)lol


REALY...i am not as dumb as i sound in here. my mind is clouded by fear of breaking my car! (at least that is what i tell myself)

ohhh. just remembered, with the software, would i still need to get the thing dynotuned? or does it have all the options needed to tell me what's up.

hopefully with some help i can get this thing done and never have to find sombody to put it on the dyno.