SunfighterGT wrote:Josh F wrote:oh and also if you guys know where i can find a LD9 block... let me know 
the decision was made ..... this car's engine is getting built to the max... ever perfomance part is getting put on from forged crank and rods to pistons, P&P head/supercharger, cams, ect....going for 22-25psi of boost
Um... I hope you realize it takes more than machinework, rods, pistons, bearings and cams to get the LD9 to support heavy horsepower. In fact you're going to have to find every weak spot and fix it...
I now know of at least 5 weak spots on the motor at that power level, all of which I've dealt with. I will leave it up to you to find them, but with that said keep in mind that they are there. It takes a LOT more than off-the-shelf parts to make the LD9 strong at 400+ whp... and a lot of people do not realize this. Funny how I've seen people still blow built motors over the last few years... there IS a reason you know.
Good luck Josh.
-Chris-
you underestimate this i believe... funny how i putt ect... at the end... EVERY last thing you can think of and buy perfromance parts on this engine are going on... nothing will be spared.. from cooling with nitrouse intercooler spray bar, big intercooler, alcohol injection, new/better rad, oil cooler, to a compleatly forged bottom end, 2.3L oil pump, arp studs, high end bearings all around and more... like i said nothing it being left out on this build....even the axles/CV joints are being upgraded ass well...
The First Twin Charged jbody
blue car (R.I.P) - 240whp @7psi..
silver car - 305whp 315lbs.tq @15psi (91 Octane) or 420whp & 425lbs.TQ @20psi (94 octane+Alcohol Injection)
All dynos run on a Mustang dyno
Josh... I do not underestimate it. I think you're underestimating the weaknesses in the 2.4
Nowhere there did you list one of the things needed to fix a few of the main weaknesses in the motor.
High end bearings mean very little... so do rods and pistons or ARP studs or a 2.3 oil pump conversion. Bro... there are literal problems with the MOTOR itself. Things that can' be fixed by throwing high end parts at them - you need to fix these issues on the motor.
I know of 3-4 main reasons why the Ecotec is far far far superior to the LD9 stock... and they lie in these weaknesses. When you strip the car down you're going to have to give the engine a thorough look-over and sit down and think why our stock engines fail so easily.
I am not trying to come off as condescending either, I'd rather see you succeed rather than run into more problems at 400+ whp. But I won't spoonfeed anybody the answers because I've spent far too much money and time finding these problems and having them corrected. If you are a good enginebuilder, or KNOW OF a good enginebuilder... take the block to them. If they do not spot a few major issues with the stock bottom end (and I'm not talking rods, pistons, pins, rings, or bearings) then they aren't the person you want to machine and assemble your motor.
Good luck Josh. 400+ whp is an uphill battle and a half. I'm midway through waging my war with it.
-Chris-
-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
I dont even know where to start on this........ I just want to shake my head...... You disapoint me Chris...... you really do. Any and all info you have, you've leached off others....... then you wave a blank piece of paper around in front of everyone, and claim to hold the Twin Cam Holy Grail.
Issues I know about.......
Oiling/spun bearings....... 2.3 oil pump conversion(not some JBP 2.4 pump and balance shafts)
Timing chain crank gear....... I know of one person who had issues with this, Mike Karas....... cracked the crank gear under high HP/RPM loads...... a possible way to go is have a beefier gear made out of stronger meterial...... or figure out how to do a belt drive conversion (which would have its own issues)..... or swap to the old twin row chain and gear setup found on the older Quads.
Possible Timing chain failure...... (see above for possible fixes)
Then you have 'weakness' issues....... 2 bolt main caps, with no extra support....... the block not being 'square' (90mm bore/94mm stroke), which isnt to bad, but not ideal for High Reving engines..... have the rotating assembly balanced, and it'll help (still no 9k rpm Vtec engine
).... The bottle neck 2.4 Exhaust ports...... porting jobs will help that......
The 2.4 water pump is more then adiquite for cooling (they just tend to seep)
Cooling passeges in the head/block are fine
With the 2.3 oil pump swap, the oiling passages in the block are fine.
Lifters...... not sure when they'll fail...... but if you plan to rev the crap out of the engine, I'd upgrade the lifters.
Crank, never seen a 2.4 crank fail straight up....... so as long as you dont grind the main or rod bearing surfaces you should be good..... if your worried, cryo-treat it.... might help you sleep at night.
So lets see...... I covered Oiling, Cooling, Timing, Block, Crank, Head....... now its time for you to tell me what I missed? Most of the issues I put up wont keep you from hitting 500hp...... and as SunCavi has poven, you only need 3-350 hp and a light ass car to run 11's........
Now I'm not posting this to rag on you Chris...... I just hate when people claim to know something and dont offer up any proof. I've waisted to much time on this post.
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
Woah woah holy grail? Not in the least but a lot of money is being spent on the block Brian.... in fact most of the problems with the LD9 LIE in the block and how GM made it.
Is it a big secret? Hell no. All I'm asking is for people to go look at the block and sit down and think about why bearings fail so freakin' easily
As for info that I "Leeched" off of others. I never claim to have gotten all my info on my own. The issue with the timing chain I got from you and Fetter... which is 100% appreciated it was a part of the motor I overlooked.
As for the rest a lot of it is covered...
As for saying the oiling passages in the block being fine- they are not. I have seen 4 blocks now and only one was half decent I'd say for oil getting through it well.
And yeah you covered most of the basics... there are a few odd things here and there that I am doing. 2 bolt mains is one big issue...
My point is I'm not claiming to know everything about the motor. But time has been put into it to make it right... fix the mistakes they made from the factory. There is a fully explainable reason we spin bearings even on stock motors. And it doesn' t just lie in the oil pump.
Also, you DID miss one thing. The tensioner is weak under heavy loads and RPM's, as well as extra heavy duty valvesprings. Should you want to go to the level I am with RPM's, Cams/Springs, etc then you'll want to find a way to get it to hold because it likes to pop out. I found this out from SDSGT, a friend of mine. More info I "Leeched".
.Good luck josh. As I was saying earlier, there is a LOT MORE than rods and pistons to put into the LD9. It has its spots and if you deal with them then you should be good. It's just a motor like any other.
-Chris-
-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
I didnt mean to have it come across so bad...... just that you made it sound like you did all the work/found this all out by yourself....... the whole point of this site is to share info, if everyone was so tight lipped about these things, we'd still be stuck with bolt on intakes and exhausts.
I've learned alot from members of this site, and I share everything I learn as well. Its how we progress as a communitee.
Compair the oil passages in a 96-98 block, and a 99+ block..... did GM address the oil passage issue your seeing?
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
well to start... this engine wont be going to any higher RPM's then stock....
i was talking to an engine builder and some one who has seen and helped built up a 2.4L to 400hp at the crank... and i think it was 369whp... with no problems with the oil getting threw on a 2001 LD9 block which is the same i have and am using... it might be different on older LD9's though....
also i have a hand fully of people around me... one here in town dynoed at 349whp on his built up daily driven 2.4L so i got him to help me out with problems he had found... as well as the engine builder i previously mentioned is going to be helping me out and actually has his own Twin charged set up built like mine.. don't think he posts on here though... and i know his one built up 2.4L is running 11.5:1 compression on a turboed race built engine fully tuned but then he runs pure racing gas... and its not daily driven...
and yes the 2bolt mains was not over looked... i maybe only be 18 years old... and still got ALOT!!! to learn.. but i also have my old man helping me along with this and he has been building up engines in his cars since he was 14.... and included in that is his recent boosted project.. so i do have help all around me but even still i come to this site for help as well as there are problems specific to the jbody that i would THINK! could be answered on here and not held back because some one thinks they have put to much money into finding them out to let others know... i mean you would think we are here to help each other out... and not just let some one crash...
any way i will take a closer look and add more notes to my many pages i have so far started from the suggestions from both of you above tomorrow when i am more awake...
and lastly... i don't jump into things... every last part i put on this car is thought out by me, by my dad and my a friend of ours who is a GM mechanic who builds his own cars up (crazy guy... put a 3.8L turbo engine from a GN into a celica once)... the twin charge set up took about 4-5months of planing... before it got started... this engine build will get the same thing... i start out writing out notes... finding all the info i can find from the stock engine from Max load capabilitys of every thing to the actual flow of oil and how it will be effected from the different boost levels.. to the new parts going into the engine... and then on top of that when putting things on i probably take 3x as long as most people to put things in because i find out what torque level every bolt should be as well as i NEVER! take a short cut... if it means not getting it on the road that week end and waiting longer thats how it is...
The First Twin Charged jbody
blue car (R.I.P) - 240whp @7psi..
silver car - 305whp 315lbs.tq @15psi (91 Octane) or 420whp & 425lbs.TQ @20psi (94 octane+Alcohol Injection)
All dynos run on a Mustang dyno
Sweet set-up Josh ur an inspiration. keep up the great work like u and all us i cant wait to see numbers.
ps. I hope its at the bash
Dave
A new breed of J will be unleashed in 06
Creating the E-RACER one mod at a time
Member of J-Factor
Member of Wisc's J's
1/4 mile 16.084 @ 84.90 (Stock Z) 01 SPDY Z24
E-RACER-05 (RADIO WAVE DAVE) wrote:Sweet set-up Josh ur an inspiration. keep up the great work like u and all us i cant wait to see numbers.
ps. I hope its at the bash
thank you... when is the bash? and where? i dont think i will be able to make it out this year to it... i took all of august off to go to saskatoon and bc and a few other places so i dont know if i would be able to .... but next year i will try too.. i remember when i first came on to Jbody.org i wanted to go to one but i never new my car would be like this going down to one....
The First Twin Charged jbody
blue car (R.I.P) - 240whp @7psi..
silver car - 305whp 315lbs.tq @15psi (91 Octane) or 420whp & 425lbs.TQ @20psi (94 octane+Alcohol Injection)
All dynos run on a Mustang dyno
