Martinez wrote:i'm not a tuner by any means, and still have a lot to learn, but i know it is very very important. suncavi, you say you don't have the money to properly tune it just yet, then why not wait till you do before the car moves. Mr pute i have to agree with you on just about everything you said, and suncavi, i give you a lot of credit for making your car into the 11's. i think the point here is, if your going to make it to the 11's then you should definately take the time to research everything, and make sure everything (i.e., tuning) is correct, otherwise your just making mistakes that don't need to happen. i'm not saying research will get rid of all problems, but it will sure help to minimize them. i'm sure their was some things that suncavi could have done better, but to late, i think people have all come to the conclusion that tuning would definately help his car, and i hope he has patience to wait to take the car out until he gets it fine tuned. that is what i have gotten from this whole thing, and suncavi maybe i'm wrong and your tuning is fine, and if so good luck on the whole project, i'm not hating on anyone right now, and even if you made any mistakes on anything, it would still be nice to be able to say i hit 11's.

Martinez,

I'm glad to see that someone is paying attention to what I'm saying and getting the key points.

SunfighterGT ,
Werd yo. This thread is fricken sweet.




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Mr. Pute wrote:
Lash,

Again, you've made a perfect example of yet another pointless comment that merits nothing for this conversation.

ohh please!

Half of the **** said by you and others may be true.....but most of your attacts come from jealousy. ITS OBVIOUS DUDE! I'm sure he enjoys rubbing it in some peoples faces that he's one of the fastes cars on this site. But I'm sure he enjoys it even more when he getts added attention because of people throwing a hissy fit because of it. I know deep inside you hate it that HE had to be one of the firsts to run 11's. Anybody else probably would have been alot different. But he did and how he did it dosent matter anymore. Until you run as fast or faster WITHOUT any probelms...STFU. This cry baby **** between a handfull of members on this forum is REALLY GETTING OLD.







RE Audio

dam this thread is still going , LOL


s eyes*

lash, i'm not trying to start sh*t with you, but you said how he made it to the 11's doesn't matter anymore just because he made it there. well no offense, but if i start slapping stuff on my car and i hit 11's and blow the motor right afterwards, are you going to give me just as good of credit as you did suncavi because i hit 11's. the point is, yeah he hit 11's, and that is a great thing, but now lets make sure he is working on staying in the 11's and not having problems. i'm not saying his current setup is bad and that his motor will blow, i just realize that people (Mr Pute, etc) are saying lets get it tuned and make sure everything is running good, that way he can push out even higher #'s and he can do it safer as well. i like how i read through most of this and everyone feels that what they are saying is being bashed, yet i know most of what i read is just people helping out, maybe worded horrible and coming across like they aren't trying to help, but i hope we can all agree that if suncavi just makes sure his sh*t is tuned properly, then he will more then likely run higher dyno #'s, and lower 1/4 mile times, as well as knowing that his car is a hell of a lot safer.

Again....

until somebody runs as fast or faster without any problems .....I'm done with this thread....done reading it even cause it's all CRAP anyways.





RE Audio

Lash wrote:Half of the **** said by you and others may be true.....but most of your attacts come from jealousy. ITS OBVIOUS DUDE! I'm sure he enjoys rubbing it in some peoples faces that he's one of the fastes cars on this site. But I'm sure he enjoys it even more when he getts added attention because of people throwing a hissy fit because of it. I know deep inside you hate it that HE had to be one of the firsts to run 11's. Anybody else probably would have been alot different. But he did and how he did it dosent matter anymore. Until you run as fast or faster WITHOUT any probelms...STFU. This cry baby **** between a handfull of members on this forum is REALLY GETTING OLD.

A car that ran a high 11 second run and nearly toasted it's engine in the process with a past of dumping thousands of dollars into previous revisions to ultimately end in the same SHORT term result? Hardly jealousy. I have my own plans, projects, and acomplishments. If you think I'm jealous of his acomplishment, you're sadly mistaken.

I for one would like for my setup to run a little bit longer than Suncavi's example. I've mearly exploited this thread to set an example to others as to what NOT to do for the sake of having a reliable setup and not having to be wasteful with your money. I'm glad at least a handful of people have spoken up saying that they see my points.

I'll give you credit this time for at least having some words of thought included with your brainless banter.

BTW: Your final comment suggests that you're one of the crybabies as well. WAA




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And no...the hahn sunfire dosent count







RE Audio

Lash wrote:And no...the hahn sunfire dosent count

Even though I don't like Hahn, I give them credit for at least having a reliable setup.




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Mr. Pute wrote:

I'm glad to see you have resorted to weak personal insults...AGAIN.


Nothing like the




RE Audio

Lash do you atleast agree that a proper tune on his car would make everything atleast a little better.

Mr Pute though you feel suncavi has not properly tuned his car, do you atleast admit that he has set a nice 11 sec 1/4 time.

i don't think it is jealousy, i think in Mr Pute's case, he just hasn't congratulated suncavi for atleast trying.

Lash, i guess i don't see why him not giving credit to suncavi is irritating you so much. its obvious Mr Pute just wants to make sure that everyone knows proper tuning is big, and i think he has made that point. but i will have to agree with you and say that it is still very impressive and obviously took suncavi a lot of time and effort to make it there.

Martinez wrote:Lash do you atleast agree that a proper tune on his car would make everything atleast a little better.

Sure...who wouldn't.

Quote:


Lash, i guess i don't see why him not giving credit to suncavi is irritating you so much.

LOL...I could care less. I think he gets annoying at times too (suncavi). But at least I can say "nice run" without having to ***** and moan in every friggen thread the guy makes.


K...I'm done now.


Good post BTW Martinez.






RE Audio

top fuel cars are garbage.... you have to rebuild them after every .25 miles of driving.... it must mean they can't tune worth @!#$, they are retarded, and they are to ignorant to know. How cars if they run faster then just about everything they are meant to compete with they are still junk

I think people are missing a huge part.

what exactly is wrong with his tune??? I have yet to read what he has done wrong?

hes got his AFR preety much in check. besides the intintional riching. and theres the spark problem umm yeah show me an eco thats this stock with out this problem.

well you cant becuase there is only one other car I can even think about on hear that is this high.

this brings me to my last point. how can people possiably complain about the car makeing powr and performance. what the hell ldo you have to do to get fning respect around here.


and does any one eles get the vibe that you car is considered and out cast unless its lowered with a milid bodykit nodecals no wing subtle hood and wheels its like a @!#$ comunist nation.


"Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "

I have a few tings left to say on all this bitch fest.

One I do agree about proper tuning. It is the best thing, also can make more power. The truth is most boosted cars on this site, if not all are not tuned properly. HPtuners should help change that a lot for us, but that is just now coming out.

I have to say I do not agree with including old motor set-ups in his price of modding, it should only include about the current set-up. He is not the only one on this site to change motor types, or to go through motors even.

I can also say from first hand experience GM race team will not just give you info. Myself and other have talked to them (I will say it has beena couple years, and maybe something has changed), they gave us info, but very easy info, nothing great, no maps, timing curves etc.... If you have a way to get it then props to you, but not everyone does. GM's set-up is not mine, or yours, or his. Every set-up is different. How many times have people stated that on this site.

Again people always attackes Suncavi, and blames him for causing stuff, but he has been attacked for not tuning his car like others would like. his money let him @!#$ it up, but he is still faster than most of us, and has gfotten things for that that most of us will never get. If you only knew everything.



FU Tuning

john, i'll agree with you on your point that people jumped at him as opposed to just saying good work, lets see you tune it and get so more impressive #'s, or better yet, maybe explain some things that he should do tuning wise and say other then that, great job. the point being, yes it seemed that most in a sense jumped at him about his tuning because no one was really congratulating. also i have to admit that no one really knows everything about his setup and how he is tuning it, or what he has planned in the future. but that is just as much our fault as it is his. he has given no extra info on his car to back up his arguments other then i didn't blow any motors. but we are all just as guilty because everyone is saying poor tuning, yet no one is asking, so what have you done to tune, and what are your future plans. i think the point is with the info we have to go off of we don't feel he has properly tuned it like he should, and once again, instead of just saying that, a good, great job with the car would go a lot further then anyone has obviously imagined.

Suncavi, good job with the car, honestly i have to agree that tuning would probably get you a lot better results, but i also congratulate you on all the money you were willing to spend and all of the time you were willing to spend with your car to inspire people.

Martinez wrote:john, i'll agree with you on your point that people jumped at him as opposed to just saying good work, lets see you tune it and get so more impressive #'s, or better yet, maybe explain some things that he should do tuning wise and say other then that, great job. the point being, yes it seemed that most in a sense jumped at him about his tuning because no one was really congratulating. also i have to admit that no one really knows everything about his setup and how he is tuning it, or what he has planned in the future. but that is just as much our fault as it is his. he has given no extra info on his car to back up his arguments other then i didn't blow any motors. but we are all just as guilty because everyone is saying poor tuning, yet no one is asking, so what have you done to tune, and what are your future plans. i think the point is with the info we have to go off of we don't feel he has properly tuned it like he should, and once again, instead of just saying that, a good, great job with the car would go a lot further then anyone has obviously imagined.

Suncavi, good job with the car, honestly i have to agree that tuning would probably get you a lot better results, but i also congratulate you on all the money you were willing to spend and all of the time you were willing to spend with your car to inspire people.

im glad your a postive guy and all. but I have to use you as an example here.

everyone keeps using a tune as such a generic term. like you can just turn on your xbox and load up stage three tune. what is wrong with his tune???? why is everonye so quick to jump on the band wangon. I have yet to see one single explanation for his "bad tune"

so far all I have seen come from everyone is hey man.... goood job......but you need to work on your tune....... .. ummm kkkk.

btw this wasnt meant agaisnt you man.




"Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "

mr pute....if gm has done all the R & D which they have as you seem to have read the GM build book....what do they say about teh Timing and Fuel curves....as far as i know they have said nothing.....they also do not have a part which you can buy off the shelf to keep teh engine in tune....you could buy every part out of teh GM book and still blow the motor because they tell you nothing about timing fuel or any other things that you need to keep the motor alive at that high hp....and ugh how ofter does GM rebuild there motors???? honestly this is jsut goin down the drain....people this is a community we are here to help each other not bitch at other peoples mistakes.....


Thanx Charles

There are many things wrong with my tune Jcavi, but people don't know about it but just are saying it because I am running a FMU.
With FMU and S-AFC believe it or NOT I can still flat line the A/F corve which I don't know why would someone NOT wanna have, since Mr Pute so easily says (He doesn't suggest people do what I am doing since I am doing something wrong).

Most of my stuff however is ignition and spark based.

One of the things that is wrong, since I am not much of a """""Tuner""""" but I still tune my own car is this.
Let see it is very rich like below 10:1 until about 5000 rpm and then 11:1, the reason I am leaving it at this is following:
#1 As soon as I start going higher in A/F for example 11.8:1 would be what I would like to run, ECU starts pulling timing.
I logged it with a Predator and here is the following, even tho noone likes EGT gauges as soone as my timing is pulled even 1 or 2 degrees EGT's climb like 1600+ F.
#2 Why is my timing being pulled at 10:1 and at 11.5:1, no matter where I at.
I am aware that you could possibly knock on 11.8 hence timing pull casue we are at about 18 degrees timing advance at WOT, but you could possibly knock running too rich because of afterburn. Afterburn could also keep your EGT's high.

Now Mr Pute, before you tell me I am running FMU and S-AFC and, this and that, help me 1st I know what I am doing wrong.
ECU throws many P0172 Bank 1 Too Rich codes, P0300 Mulitple cylinder misfire, (could be from running rich and I think it is), P0304 just last night, P0507 idle Too high, cause it is trying to compensate for 700cc injectors.

So if the EGT's go high if I pull timing and I am running 11:1 what the hell good would I do EGT's wise if I pulled it myself, I just don't see the need there.
If I get a 6212 box with boost retard say and knock off like a couple of degrees up top, the car is gonna run 1700 F, just as if the ECU was pulling it.

Yes, I have tried running on a 93/C16 mix (nevermind the lead) and car picked up 3 mph in the 1/4 but the EGT's are still 1600+ which I assume it is still pulling timing.
I might seem like I am talking about EGT's a lot but when I say that I assume the timing is being pulled.

GM talked about building the motor that will never see over 1230F at WOT and full boost, they are accomplishing this how??? They wouldn't enilghten me for some reason but reather telling me to F off and go find out myself.

With the beans being spilled on the table either you are going to write a big answer with a lot of useful info for me so I can try a few things or you are just going to say I told you, you should have done it right the 1st time, if 2nd one is the case then I would appreciate you not post anything.
It's ok if you are not willing to contribute anything I would understand.
Now, lets see your tunning abilities.

BTW, one last thing I do NOT believe in that 20 degree timing retard bull@!#$ at 10 psi.




Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!

Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's ----12's ----11's ----10's

One more thing, the spark plugs never look like they had some severe knock happen, or running lean.
The base is black cause of the injecotors and daily driving, but the top is perfectly fine except sometimes a little stained gray from the lead.



Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!

Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's ----12's ----11's ----10's

yasmin , id give up on those guys



lol

jcavi, no offense taken off of your post, but that is why in my post i mentioned that no one knows what he was doing to tune his car, and no one was asking, they were just saying it was wrong. i just suggested that if they are going to say that, then they atleast congratulate him so that way people don't get the wrong idea of what they mean by it. once again, i could not tune a car to save my life, but i do have some knowledge on the subject, and i only used the term genericly to make my points. though i still do have to say i stand behind a lot of what Mr Pute said, i think he made some very good points, though he might not know about suncavi's car, he still made good points. i know it may have seemed like Mr Pute was jumping on suncavi but i don't think that was the case, plus it really doesn't make anyone that jumped all over Mr Pute any better. they obviously acted the same way they thought he did. lets stick to the main points:

tuning is a huge part, and though it cost money, it can save you a lot of money in the long run. their are obviously different ways to tune, and some prefer certain ways over other ways, and some do their tuning the way they can afford, which is still hopefully a good and not cheap attempt to tune. if anyone wants specifics on either suncavi's car, or on tuning, i think their should be another thread opened up, this one should be done with, it was only intended for suncavi to get some aggression out, and obviously the org helped him stay in the game and keep working on his car. so atleast something good came out of this, lets just drop the subject now.

Suncavi, on a personal note, i'm glad to see that you atleast know whats wrong with what you've done so far, and i'm sure you have plans to fix it all in the future, and i'm sure we can expect to see some more impressive #'s from you. sorry for the long post.

damn this post is still going, i made the mistake of having the posts e mailed to me.

my hat still goes off to suncavi. i am a strong believer in not having a car not look good, and thus go fast. i also a strong believer in the check engine light customness.

anyways, keep us updated brother' . good luck and keep making them times drop .

Thanks Jake, but Mr Pute what do you think about the questions 4 posts up??



Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!

Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's ----12's ----11's ----10's

SunCavi_L61T3/T04E wrote:Thanks Jake, but Mr Pute what do you think about the questions 4 posts up??

Throughout this entire thread, I've never said that I'm a good tuner. Please make note of that. I've just tried to put emphasis on what you've been neglecting. But here's my short take on what you should be doing.

First off, having just a S-AFC and FMU isn't going to cut it. I'm sure you know, the S-AFC modifies the incoming MAP sensor signal and either adds to it or takes away from it before it gets to the ECU. Provided you're not tripping any codes (my next point in a second), the MAP sensor is used by the ECU to determine adjustments to the fuel curve as well as timing. Increasing the S-AFC to level out a bad a/f ratio is a horrible thing to do, because you are majorly screwing with timing as well. Whoops.

2nd, I don't know of anyone who's running a S-AFC that isn't getting the P0107 MAP low voltage code without doing the resistor trick. Are you positive you are not getting this code? Have you performed the resistor trick? The reason I ask is because of the following consequence for that code being tripped (directly from GM's service manuals):

Quote:

The PCM will substitute a fixed MAP value and use Throttle Position (TP) to control the fuel delivery (scan tool will not show defaulted value.)

Yikes. So if you can see what the ECU is doing through a scan tool and you can't rely on your S-AFC anymore, what's left? Just your a/f ratio to determine what's going on at that point. Not good.

Also, you said earlier that you've already pumped an absolute pressure of 1.5 bar through your stock sensor. According to GM's serivice manual, you should definitely be tripping a P0108 MAP voltage too high code. This will have the same results as the P0107 code by having the ECU default a fuel map in place of what the sensor is telling the ECU to do.

The problem is, the tools you have are not adequate enough to get the job done and one of them is quite possibly causing problems with your ECU. My suggestion to get you to the point of properly tuning? Sell your S-AFC, perform the Ecotec reflash to allow your stock ECU to see at least 2 bar, purchase a 3 bar MAP sensor and then purchase the HP Tuners reprogramming system to allow your ECU to use your injectors properly, to tune timing and fuel properly, and to fake the ECU into using a 3 bar MAP sensor properly.

To back up the Reflash purchase, I'm only suggesting it for two reasons. One, you'll have some decent boost maps to work with that have been under R&D with GM for a couple years now. Two, it will keep the fake shift of map pressure values within a reasonable range under the HPT software and will allow for more overall resolution through the sensor/software combo to better tune your car.

If you haven't noticed, I'm done ranting. I figure that since you've actually admitted to having a major problem with your car, you're asking me of my opinion, and I've also convinced most people here not to overlook tuning as much as the majority of the ignorant Org members do out there, I can stop forcing my opinion down people's throats.

One more thing I just thought of. What brand are your injectors and what is the max fuel pressure they are seeing? Reason I ask is because injectors will stick wide up under the right pressure. Not good.




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when is the next 1/4mile run ?




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Real cars don't make power at the front wheels......
THEY LIFT THEM !!!
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