Ok. I have a 95 sunfire 2.2 OHV with the three speed auto tranny, and just put a 96 2.2 OHV in it because I blew the motor. I got everything put together tonight and turned the key only to have it act like it's got a dead battery. I put the charger on it, and after a few minutes it turned over a couple times, but now I'm getting nothing. The bendix isn't kicking or anything. I started to try and track down the problem but got frustrated pretty quick. I do know that the battery cable is getting voltage at the starter, but the solenoid wire shows no change when turning the key. I know the battery has enough juice because I can jump terminals on the starter, but it still doesn't get spark. I checked all the fuses under the hood and the dash, and nothing is blown. Is there a relay somewhere that I don't know about, or should I be looking for something else?
If you need any more info please let me know I'll be checking this page every couple minutes.
Did you try tapping on the solenoid? It could be slowly going bad, and just be coiencidence that it happened right now.
My starter is slowly going bad, every once in a while I will go out and turn the key, and absolutely nothing will happen, like a dead battery, Have someone tap the solenoid, while you turn the car over (or vice versa) and it should start right up!
Nope. That's not it. I'm not getting power to the purple wire running to the solenoid. I just checked the yellow wire running into the neutral safety on the tranny, and there's no power there either, so I'm gonna keep trying from there for now.
Well, no power at the body side of the large connector under the air cleaner. Guess I'm tearing back into my dash one more time.
Ok. At the ignition switch this is what I have.
Yellow wire is dead.
Orange is hot in Run and start position
Red is hot in run only
could it be as simple as a different ignition?
Is there a hidden fuse, or something else I should be looking for?
Could this be causing a no spark condition at the plugs?
Sorry about all the posts guys. I'm just trying to give clues as I go so maybe somebody will recoggnize the problem, and have the info to help out.
With the ignition in the run position if I jump the ignition from pink to yelolow I can get it to turn over. I think the ignition switch is bad, but I still get no spark. Is it possible that these two items are clues to a different problem?
One more update before I go to work. I have power at the coils on the smaller 2 wire plug on the larger pin, and ground on the smaller pin. I tried changing out the coils with the set that ran this car a week ago when the motor blew., but still have no spark.
Any help on this would be greatly appreciated, but for now I gotta go to work and will be back to check around midnight tonight.
Thanks in advance.
Now that I think about it, your ignition switch might be the culprit, if its bad, I don't think it would send power to the solenoid.
On your ignition switch, the yellow wire , should have power while cranking. that is fed by both red wires, pins B and C. They are a double feed for the switch from the Ignition fuse under the hood.. The orange wire is a load wire for the power windows, HVAC and O2 sensor.
Actually what Im getting at is if you are getting power to the two red wires and to nothing else, then your switch is junk. That is including the yellow starter wire.
2 red feed wires
4 load wires, Brown, Orange,Yellow, and a Pink. (pink feeds your ign module as well as many other components)
1 ground, Black (for chime)
1 lt green wire for the key in ignition chime(which is the only thing the ground is used for)
brown orange and pink, are key on powers. If you dont get power from all of them with the key on = switch junk.
Those wires do other things like accessories and bulb test, but for this test those dont matter.
This reminds me to tell you that gm had problems with the switch, a safety recall was issued because of the switch over heating , an external relay was installed under the hood to remove some of the load from the start circuit. If you dont have a relay in the purple starter wire then the recall wasnt performed. Which is maybe what has happened to your switch.
01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e
I just re-checked all my wires on the ignition switch, and here is what I've got.
Brown - hot in Run and Acc.
Orange - hot in Run
Pink - hot in Run and Start
White - hot in Run and Start
Both Reds - hot in all positions
Yellow - shows no change (never hot)
I'm pretty confident in saying the switch is shot, but if I run a jumper wire from hot to yellow and turn the starter over that way should I be getting spark at spark plugs? I'm not, and I tried a set of known working coils which pretty much rules that out. Also I tried one of the plug wires from each individual coil. When I switched the coils I had to remove them from the little box they're mounted to because the backing plate that bolts to the engine is different from 95 to 96, but I switched the box with the coils.
Anybody got a complete wiring schematic for this car, or a pier I can push it off?
You need to find a 96 diagram for the ignition switch. You said that you switched the wiring over but did you change over the cluster and wiring that goes to it. A 96 has a theft system that is in the cluster 95 has no theft. More than likely thats what your having problems with. That is totally different from the starter problem. You still need an ignition switch.
Your wires are a little different from mine, My diagram is for an 01 and the wires that I gave you are what I have, No white. And my orange has power in run and start(you said that yours is just power in run) Your orange leads might be fried too.
I would change the switch and go from there.
01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e
I didn't change the wiring at all except for wiring in a different knock sensor plug for the 96 engine. Everything else plugged right in except that. That's what gets me. I never messed with the electrical and now I have major problems. All I did was change the engine. Why does this car hate me?
Well I just looked at what autozone has for a schematic and according to them the 4 wires rinning to my coil should be as follows.
Pink - hot in Start and Run
Tan - Ground
Orange - fed from PCM
White - fed from PCM
This info sounds correct as I tested the lines feeding the coil earlier today. I guess I'm going to have to find another PCM and ignition to try.
OMG this car is killing me. I put a new head on it right after I bought it, which isn't unreasonable. After I got it running I spent 2 months tracking down the previous owner to get the title notorized so I could register it. I bought it from a friend at work that got it from his girlfriends coworker that got it from her daughter in PA. The girl in PA was the last registered owner which makes it a PA title. In PA a title has to be notorized to be transferred. Well I live in NY and knew nothing about this stupid ritual. After that I got to drive it for 6 days before the bottom end went out. I scraped bearings out of the oil pan, but never shot a rod. Now I just got a different motor in it and can't even start the thing to see if it runs.
if you didnt change the pcm to a 96 when you changed the engine, leave it for now. get an ignition switch first. If that doesnt do anything for you , have the Ignition module tested at a parts store. If that tests OK make 100% sure that your wiring is good to the Ignition module and double check that you hooked up all the wires when you changed the engine. Its very common to forget to hook up the crank sensor since it only goes 3-4 inches to the ignition module. grounds are another oops, make sure all the grounds are attached to the bell housing bolts, there should be atleast 2 of the bolts with grounds on them.
Oh by the way the coils are in pairs, meaning there are 2 coils for 4 cylinders(1-4 coil and 2-3 coil) they are mounted on the ignition module with (2) 7/32 head bolts through each coil. the easiest way to remove the ignition module (for testing) is to remove the coils and the module just falls out. You can remove the (3) 13mm head bolts that hold the whole thing on but unless you have a stick shift, its a real PITA to do it that way. The plug that U must be talking about is one of the plugs on the Ignition module. there are also should be 2 more plugs, both should be 2 prong plugs, one is for the crank sensor and the other is the power and ground feed.
01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e
I did not change the pcm to a 96, and don't intend to yet as that would require a lot more work and parts than I intended to get into right now. I just need this as a daily driver for now. The PCM that's in it ran this car about a week and a half ago right up til the bottom end took a dump. The only difference I can see with the 96 engine from the 95 that I took out is the cam sensor that's in the 96, which isn't hooked up as my harness has no place for it. I doubt that has anything at all to do with this problem.
I have two complete sets of coils with ignition modules. One is the one that was in this car from day one, and the other is the one that came with the engine I bought. The one that came with the engine I bought has a different mounting bracket to accomidate the cam sensor being so close. I have tried both sets of coils, and both modules on this engine with no success, but I'll take them both to AutoZone tomorrow to see if they can test them.
I just went out and double checked all my connections on the back side of the engine. Everything seems to be in order there. All there is is the crank sensor, knock sensor, oil pressure sender, 2 coil conections, and the cam sensor (previously mentioned). I also checked the grounds on the bell, and everything that I can dig up there has solid connection.
As far as the coils having three plugs, you might be thinking of a different year, but mine only have two plugs. There is the power/ground plug which seems to be working correctly, and I assume the pulse wires running directly from the PCM. I have not tested those wires, but will probably cfheck them for continuity between the coil plug and the PCM plug when I pull the PCM tomorrow. I don't expect the problem to be in continuity though. Also the schematic on AutoZone's web site shows the crank sensor running directly to the PCM plug so I assume the PCM processes the crank sensor's signal and sends pulse to the coils from there.
Much more of this crap and I'm gonna bolt my Rotax under the hood and find a way to make it work. Ha Ha Ha!
I just wanted to make sure before I hit the bone yards tomorrow, what ignition switches will work for this car? Remember it's a 1995 with 1995 wiring and 1995 PCM. I know the 1996 ignition has to communicate with the 1996 PCM so that's out, but will older years work with the 1995 PCM and harness?
Yeah your right the 95 doesnt have 3 plugs. I looked it up today. Autozone should have the switch, I know advance auto does cause I have put them on before. Have fun with the mounting screws, Im pretty sure they are tiny inverted torx screws. Tamper proof crap. Im not sure what years they will fit, the pars store would be able to tell you. As far as the PCm going bad, well 95 would be the only year that I have changed a third gen pcm on, for some reason those are the crappy ones.. they have an EProm in them that you have to swap over, the only one in the third gen's that have a removeable prom.
01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e
I just wanted to say thanks jo for all the help on this pain in the neck car. I can't wait to get this thing running again.
I just got home from work at about midnight so no work gets done on the fire tonight, but I did score some parts from one of the local yards. I managed to find a PCM for $26, an ignition switch for $6 and a good inner fender to help protect the computer for $3. I love that bone yard. Gotta pull the parts yourself, but it's sooooo worth the few minutes it took. I'll be putting the PCM and ignition in the car in the morning, so I'll let you know how everything turns out.
Oh, and the info I got about an interchange for the 95 2.2 sunfire's PCM is that it will only interchange with 95 Sunfires, and Cavalier 2.2 and 2.3. I'm not really sure how reliable that is though because they told me that the 96 2.2 would not go in a 95 2.2. That may just be because the block's part number is different though because of the opening for the cam sensor in the 96. In any case I got a 95 PCM and a 95 ignition switch. I had one of my ignition modules tested at Autozone, and it came out fine so I know the module was not the cause of my "no spark" problem.
IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!
I put the ignition switch in today which fixed the "no crank" problem. The computer did not help at all, so the next step was a spare crank position sensor which I had laying around. She fired right up. Again thank you very much Jo and Salvatiosix for all the help. I'm finally gonna be able to get the thing inspected after having it insured for four months, and registered for two months.
Thats what we like to hear, good job. Thats how we learn , Well thats how I learned anyway.. I know It really irritates me when I cant figure something out. Just gotta stick to it and have determination to get it fixed. If man can make it, man can fix it.
Remember when you are working on yours, there is alot of things that are 95 only in the electrical system . I call it the Experimental year. Or maybe its the "hurry up and get a new design out in the market, we'll fix the problems next year"
01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e
I got a feeling that it was the use up all the leftover parts year. Honestly though, I do love the car, and hope to find one with a nice body for cheap enough to experiment with it and have some fun instead of keeping it running. Actually all I need is the body to start with. The drivetrain will come later. Anyway this isn't the place for all that.........
I'm considering doing a short writeup on exactly what parts need to be changed to do this swap. There were quite a few things I wish I had known before I started this, and before I went to the yard looking for an engine.
