Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:
Are you unaware of our company's history, or how long we've been in business?
Yes I do ... should i be impressed?? Sorry you dont impress me
CAV 2NV wrote:SO you was THE 1st to make a log manifold ?? Do you have any proof of this ???
You really are just full of yourself arnt you Bill ? What a tool
I'd say that you'd have to show the proof that we didn't. Don't insult me, or call me names, that just makes you seem a bit desperate.
I have sufficient data to show that we introduced this design at the 1998 SEMA show, including magazine articles and industry experts who viewed it there. If you can show an identical design that is older for an inline four-cylinder engine, please provide it, and I will retract my statement.
Still, I have no idea why you'd question this...unless you are just grinding some kind of axe. How long have you felt you are in competition with our product, and some need to deride them and insult their designer...are you building systems and selling them?
In any case, this is a tangent...all I wished to do was provide facts about our products and systems to counter your attempts to portray them in a derogatory light. If you've nothing else to add to my posts as counterpoint, I would guess we can call it good. I don't know why you feel you are in competition with us, but let me assure you...you are not.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edited Friday, April 16, 2010 9:47 PM
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
CAVY 2NV wrote:Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:
Are you unaware of our company's history, or how long we've been in business?
Yes I do ... should i be impressed?? Sorry you dont impress me
As you might imagine, impressing you is really not a priority. I offer this info about our company's capability and history as a direct reply to your apparent stated doubt of same. We are out to sell a complete product and system solution. Amateur homebuilders like yourself will not be well served by it, but that does not mean you should feel you are somehow in competition with it, or should feel a need to talk it down in public, or insult the company and its owner.
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
Bill, sorry but I know SpeedCraft was building log style manifolds for 4 cylinder cars in 96-97. Turbo hondas were already on the street then (just not as many as now).
Funny how when he is asked to show any proof he always says you prove me wrong. You can't prove what you said and think you will make people prove you wrong.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, April 16, 2010 9:15 PM
FU Tuning
wrote:...SpeedCraft was building log style manifolds for 4 cylinder cars in 96-97. Turbo hondas were already on the street then (just not as many as now).
You are free to prove my contention incorrect...as I've stated, if I am incorrect, I will gladly retract it. In any case, the comparison to low-quality eBay manifolds made earlier is not accurate. We put considerably more effort and proprietary processes into ours, for a much higher quality result. Our 12 years of producing them has taught us much about how to make them bulletproof, as well as flow very well for the task at hand.
To the best of my knowledge, this design was a clean sheet of paper; I certainly did not mimic an existing design in creating it. I originally designed this log type (using Schedule 40 components) manifold with an established partner company called Fusibond in 1998.
Since that time, we've been in continuous production for over 12 years, with total units produced in the many thousands. It's been a very effective design, and carries an outstanding warranty to complement its substantial performance capabilities. Our Turbo Manifolds have now been in continuous use on some vehicles for over ten years, and the design's superior durability record compared to thinwall tubular "turbo headers" is an established fact. We use this design for this outstanding OEM-like durability.
GM Racing has tested our manifold effective to as much as 575 engine HP. As the vast majority of our systems are targeted at the 250-450 HP range, it's proven to be an excellent combination of performance and durability; a hallmark feature of our TurboSystems.
===================================================
In any case, I feel I have sufficiently addressed the other points in this thread. The facts regarding my company's product and performances have been presented, as has the substantial difference and lack of a comparative basis between our product and that of an amateur homebuilder.
Should anyone care to dispute these facts, or discuss them in greater detail. I'll be happy to indulge them.
Edited 7 time(s). Last edited Friday, April 16, 2010 11:01 PM
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
Allow me to illustrate the details:
The most popular version of our complete Cavalier/Sunfire Ecotec TurboSystem is the Stage II. We've sold hundreds! While they are capable of between 400 and 500 HP depending on trim and equipment level, we do not recommend anything more than 300 HP with the stock Ecotec L61 2.2L engine. This limit, established in our initial validation program in 2002 when we were the first in the USA to turbocharge Ecotec, is also consistent with the GM Ecotec Build Book's recommendations.
As it comes, the Hahn Super 16G turbocharger will support up to 400 HP of airflow. This airflow level and attendant HP will arrive in the low- to mid-20 PSI boost range. This Super 16G can develop anywhere from 5 to 35 PSI boost (depending on wastegate and boost controller configuration). It is a super-effective, very modern wheel design compressor, with great efficiency all the way to that 35 PSI upper threshold. It also benefits from a low backpressure/low rotating inertia turbine section for great power per PSI of boost, while maintaining outstanding spool performance. The Super 16G and Super 20G are Hahn RaceCraft designed, manufactured exclusively for us by Mitsubishi.
Should one choose to upgrade to a Super 20G compressor, the airflow capacity is increased to 500 HP. It is this version that has carded low 11-second passes in a street-driven J-body.
The intercooler core we use in this system is proven efficient up to 550 HP. We also use it in our twin-turbo Mustang 4.6L TurboSystem that puts down over 450 WHP @ 9 PSI. It requires no bumper reinforcement modifications, bolting in directly under the stock bumper.
Let me know if you have any other questions. I love talking about these systems!
Edited 3 time(s). Last edited Saturday, April 17, 2010 12:50 AM
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
Bill SpeedCraft is not ebay company. They were the first company to make a turbo system for a JBody. In fact I have a car with a SpeedCraft Turbo kit that still works. The car was one of the first J's to ever get a turbo kit and it was a protype. It still does the job. On a stock 2.4 auto it made 224whp back in the day on 7psi.
I will say I have had your manifold in my hands before. It is a nice piece. I will talk no bad about it.
I will simply say your company was not the first to put a log manifold on a 4 cylinder motor. Prove me wrong I have presented the facts.
FU Tuning
What type of manifold did puss boy have on his?
Josh
SLK 32
The Old LYC wrote:What type of manifold did puss boy have on his?
Log. Made by SpeedCraft. His was the first street owned (not company backed ) Turbo Ecotec.
FU Tuning
wrote:Bill SpeedCraft is not ebay company.
Oh, this I know. You have to keep in mind, I've been at this a while
We showed our turbocharged Cavalier in 1998 at SEMA, and as you might imagine, we did a bit of market research prior to that. I've known the Speedcraft guys for years from my company's extensive racing exploits; we used to have a vall with them at events! While they did abandon this market many hears ago, needless to say we did not. That's gotten us a lot of love from loyal J-body folk.
However, CVY2NV is the one who associated our product with the low-quality knockoffs from eBay, thus my explanation. If you go back a page or two, you'll see the post. I'm comfortable that I've fully addressed that misconception now.
I don't recall ever saying we were the first to put a log manifold on a four-cylinder...frankly, one would probably have to go back a hundred years to find that instance! I merely claimed that, as far as I know, my particular turbo manifold design's specifics were unique when introduced, and that as my company has put so many of them in the field in the years since, the eBay knockoffs of this design have proliferated en masse. It's not the first time my work has been imitated, and I am quite sure it will not be the last!
In any case, as you note, it's a fine design, and by now very refined. It's compact, capable of great power, and can boast nearly perpetual durability. We find them to be the perfect solution in applications up to 500 HP. My research has indicated that the flow advantages of a much less durable "header" style unit don't really start to come into major play until above that power level.
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
heres what I say we do... give me a j and give me this little kit, me and 2 people in jex will put it on and I will video said dyno run's.. /endstory. I bet you it wont come close to 400hp
5 seconds to find another street...
Casper wrote:heres what I say we do... give me a j and give me this little kit, me and 2 people in jex will put it on and I will video said dyno run's.. /endstory. I bet you it wont come close to 400hp
Hmm. I am not quite sure why you'd call my company's claims false...just what about our excellent reputation, credibility, published results and research capabilties do you doubt?
All of our claims are backed up by dyno research and on-track performances, and extensive development. Additionally, our work has been assisted and applauded by General Motors, with extensive collaboration. With thousands of turbosystems in production since our debut over 20 years ago, it's a strong history. Why do you doubt it...what is your rationale?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, April 17, 2010 10:41 AM
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
CAVY 2NV wrote:
SO ARE YOU GOING TO SIDESTEP THIS ALL NIGHT ....
yes, this is what he does....
and im surprised he finally said the psi level. its funny because it takes them curtis(skunk) psi to accomplish what most are doing with a slightly larger turbo.
i always go back to their kit vs mine. mines cheaper and went faster for less money and less amount of boost and in full street trim(one wheel wonder) I just presented the proof that my car is faster, and cheaper with less psi. so if anyone wants me to put a kit together for them, let me know and you will have a better kit than hahn. (happy bill? now i can say that stuff so we can be competeing, only difference is, if i dont sell anything, im not out anything and i still have friends
AND RESPECT on this forum.) I get it by not being a arrogant person.
and please post up FULL pics of these street cars. I expect to see:
Stock battery location
Street tires(not slicks or radials)
No cage
No weight reduction
full tank of gas( pump gas that is)
oh and that wonderful hahn manifold.... when its called a LITTLE hahn kit. because you can only put a LITTLE turbo on it before its a waste, here bill is
PROOF
Ooo wastegate cant even fit. How odd to say the least....
5 seconds to find another street...
Hi Vince. I knew it would be a matter of time before you jumped on the bandwagon. Good to see you, you always give me such good opportunities to inform the public of my company's assets!
Our turbosystems are known industry-wide for being a wonderful combination of power and driveability, and a 100% complete solution. Sure, larger turbochargers can make more power, but they also appeal to a much smaller segment, with much less sales potential. As I am in this for a living, I build systems that strike a good balance of characteristics, as that's how we sell the most.
When it comes to building BIG power, you all know I am doing very well there too...with dozens of national records and racing championships to my credit, as well as the quickest and fastest street J's on the planet, when I go there, I go big. I just don't go there for the general product line, for I need to sell more than a handful to make a good business case.
Vince and other detractors, what you can never seem to understand is this...I don't need to lie, nor do I need to "prove" anything to you. I answer every question asked, and if you doubt my answers, well...you'll just have to live with that. I'm no more "required" to prove myself right than you are to prove me wrong...and you have not yet.
My credibility and reputation are golden. If you call it into question, it's just a few haters against many thousands of satisfied customers and a stout industry standing going back over 20 years. You can't compete with that on a "my word against yours" basis. I'm sorry if that hurts your ego to hear, but in this David and Goliath comparo, David doesn't win, for this is the real world, not some fable.
When it comes to how your anger and envy is perceived against my impeccable credibility...any logical, reasonable person will consider both sources, and make the right choice. I'm confident in that knowledge, as are my customers. That's how I roll, and it's worked for a very long time! My "proof" is my published results and considerable capability, two very well known aspects in the performance world.
In this pic, we see a turbocharger not intended for our manifold, mounted incorrectly backwards on a one-off Hahn custom manifold. The manifold shown was designed to accomodate up to the size of our Super 20G turbo, in the intended mounting position. This is a misuse.
However, the Super 20G version of our system, which has produced up to 500 HP, has run quicker laps in a J than any of you haters have to date! As such, not only do my own one-off all-out efforts just BURY your cars, even my production off-the-shelf turbosystems have you covered, and I find that very satisfying indeed! I know this pisses you off to no end, and that's why you hate so hard. I can't help that...our product is well-liked and effective, and that just angers you for reasons I don't fully understand, but I can guess at...it's simply envy.
I've been #1 in many fields before, and I will continue to be in the future. I've learned that being #1 makes me a target for detractors like yourselves. No matter, really...we'll keep doing what we do, and doing it very well. The future is very bright indeed!
Should any of you wish to line up your cars with me at the track, just let me know where and when. If you aren't willing to call me out, then I am calling you out right here and now. Accept my challenge, or be known by all who read this as long on words and short on action!
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
Pics of said street J's with qualifications I posted?
Check our website. It's the Sunfire Adam drove to low 11's with our off-the-shelf TurboSystem, and mid 10's with the more aggressive setup. You know this car, Vince!
As a matter of fact, if you hang on a few days, I am about to post a huge number of pics of this world's quickest Street J-body (and also the first GM in the 10's with a Getrag 5-speed) to our Facebook fan page, as we're about to sell it. Its current 750 HP engine is going in another very tasty project! I'll be sure to post up here when I do so. It will be fun to see another J-body fan get this car!
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
All righty then. I think we've pirated this thread to death lol.
I've said all I need to say. If anyone has any other questions, I suggest they respect the OP's original intent here, and either start a new thread for discussion, or contact me on FB, PM, or email. See you at the track!
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
Bill I respect what you and Adam did with the Sunfire. I think words get a little mis used sometimes. YOu say off the shelf kit when it might be but others things helped that car go low 11's. It diud not go that time on the boost that kit is sold at off the shelf.
Others have went 11's with custom kits on stock motors. Suncavi being one. I think the car that was being sold in this post the way it sits with a stock Hahn kit would loose to my car and Roberts car.
FU Tuning
wrote:Bill I respect what you and Adam did with the Sunfire. I think words get a little mis used sometimes. YOu say off the shelf kit when it might be but others things helped that car go low 11's. It diud not go that time on the boost that kit is sold at off the shelf.
Thanks. We try to respect everyone else too! So long as we are not being called out or antagonized for our accomplishments or product, that's how we conduct ourselves.
But yes, our turbosystem is indeed available off the shelf in that low 11-second 500 HP form. That, of course, is the key aspect...it's not a custom or one-off, it's a turn-key solution, fully tuned and ready to rock, well-tested, well-fabricated and very well executed. It's of course available in many stages of power, and always upgradeable from one stage to the next by just ordering the different parts from us. The Sunfire's been witnessed in action with that setup by thousands at NOPI events and otherwise. It's the real deal!
wrote:Others have went 11's with custom kits on stock motors. Suncavi being one. I think the car that was being sold in this post the way it sits with a stock Hahn kit would loose to my car and Roberts car.
I don't debate this point, really. Larger turbos = more power. But comparing these custom setups to an off-the-shelf solution designed for a very different purpose is really apples and oranges anyway.
I've always been tight with Suncavi. He never talked any sh!t on us, so it's all been good. He sets a good example
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
Bill Hahn Jr. wrote: wrote:Bill SpeedCraft is not ebay company.
Oh, this I know. You have to keep in mind, I've been at this a while
We showed our turbocharged Cavalier in 1998 at SEMA, and as you might imagine, we did a bit of market research prior to that. I've known the Speedcraft guys for years from my company's extensive racing exploits; we used to have a vall with them at events! While they did abandon this market many hears ago, needless to say we did not. That's gotten us a lot of love from loyal J-body folk.
However, CVY2NV is the one who associated our product with the low-quality knockoffs from eBay, thus my explanation. If you go back a page or two, you'll see the post. I'm comfortable that I've fully addressed that misconception now.
I don't recall ever saying we were the first to put a log manifold on a four-cylinder...frankly, one would probably have to go back a hundred years to find that instance! I merely claimed that, as far as I know, my particular turbo manifold design's specifics were unique when introduced, and that as my company has put so many of them in the field in the years since, the eBay knockoffs of this design have proliferated en masse. It's not the first time my work has been imitated, and I am quite sure it will not be the last!
In any case, as you note, it's a fine design, and by now very refined. It's compact, capable of great power, and can boast nearly perpetual durability. We find them to be the perfect solution in applications up to 500 HP. My research has indicated that the flow advantages of a much less durable "header" style unit don't really start to come into major play until above that power level.
SO you see you are so full of yourself you dont even remember all the lies you tell .. Let me help you
Bill Hahn Jr. wrote: However, you'd have had to gone quicker than an 11.25 @ 125 MPH to be able to claim being faster than the results of our "little" TurboSystem, log manifold and all. Of course, we've made thousands of those manifolds, and were the first to innovate the design many years ago. As imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I am indeed flattered that eBay is full of imitations now. Nonetheless, I doubt any of them can claim the performance and durability of our design. They'll never catch up to our knowledge of how to do them better than anyone else.
And still I ask you bill.
Will the kit ( little hahn 16s stg2) as you put it together and sale it put out 400 hp ???
what PSI WG does it come with what BOV , injectors, boost controller, What does this kit come with ?? PARTS LIST PLZ
I'm NOT asking what it COULD do I'm asking what it does like you sale it ,, you said 400hp lets see the proof..
And this is to EVAN ... Please I beg you to come up to JAX and lets put the car on the DYNO your Stock ECO with the little hahn kit ,,( I WILL PAY FOR THIS) Then I will put My amateur built kit on my Junkyard Stock ECO on the DYNO and see what it puts down..
then I will show the proof that bill will not show
YOU BILL said yourself you have two kits a 16g and a 20g ... SO the 16g kit is a small kit of the two looking at like that the 20g is bigger correct? so the 16g is a small kit per you
I'm at a loss? When I bought the Stage II kit, I knew exactly what I was getting into and what to expect. It clearly shows on the webpage:
http://www.turbosystem.com/auto/Cavalier/ecotecplatform.htm
Quote:
Standard Boost Level: 8 PSI with 93 octane fuel
Performance at standard boost: 230 HP (crankshaft), approx. 200 at wheels
Intercooler: Hahn Front Mount, 648 cu. in. core volume
Piping: 2 1/4" mandrel-bent
Fuel system: Hahn FICU, injectors and fuel pump
In quarter mile testing at 12 PSI boost, our 3000 lb. Cavalier Attitude show car achieved 12.96 seconds @ 104 mph! This test car was fitted with slicks, the Stage II turbosystem, and an MBRP dual exhaust. As stock Cavalier/Sunfire cars are considerably lighter than this show beauty, we see strong potential for 12 second passes from a stock weight car at the standard boost level of 9 PSI.
The power level achieved in this quarter mile testing at 12 PSI boost was 275 HP (approx. 235 @ wheels), and 100 octane fuel was used.
I'm not trying to argue either side here, but what is the exact problem at hand?
Josh
SLK 32
the only way I'll run this car on a dyno, or hard at all is after John tunes it. you said the weak link here is that I'm gonna be like every retard with a turbo (not your exact words, but the main point) and blow the thing up before it even gets tuned. I guess you dont understand how tired I am of having to redo everything cause of some dumbass malfunction, which is why the couple times I've taken the LYC around the block, I've babied the hell out of it. I got into boost one time, and that was earlier today.. I reached a couple pounds, then got off the gas to shift; thats it. I have no intention of giving it even more than a quarter throttle until after its been tuned
so yes, once all is said and done, I'll come up there and we can strap it on a dyno. I'm curious to see what it'll do myself
R.I.P. JessE Gerard 7.11.87 - 1.25.08
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