let's do some megaphone talk.
SO IT CAN SOUND LIKE IM YELLING AT YOU ALL OF THE TIME. HSSSSSSSSH.Click.
forget all motor lmao you can piece a m62 set up for less maybe then the mods you listed.
manny hernandez wrote:forget all motor lmao you can piece a m62 set up for less maybe then the mods you listed.
m62 = pos
if the OP wants boost, turbo is better.
if you build a turbo kit right, it can be just as reliable as the hEaton.
but from what I'm reading (save for the ported head) OP's mod list would be under $1000. Most times I see M62 'kits' they're over $1000 for all the stuff you need to get it to work properly.
plus tuning if it doesn't include a reflashed PCM.
my kit when is set and done is gonne be under 700 yeah i got lucky lol and my best friend and i share a hp tunner so the tunnign part is taken care off . i just dont see the point of speending all that money and still running low 14s at best if that
N/A makes a more consistent car as far making it well balanced. Boost tends to make an uneven HP and Torque curve. N/A tends to have a nice smooth graph and works better in a car thats going to be used to Autocross or be daily driven. I sure as hell dont want to be spooling a turbo in a tight course and Im not a huge fan of the heat pump parasitic loss machines that S/Cs tend to be. Its not all in HP numbers my son. I really dont think Jay wants gobs and gobs of unusable power.
It also in the simplicity. Ive spend many a day wrist deep in a S/Ced Grand Prix. The more components you start adding the more failure points you gain.
^^^^listen to this man. he hit it spot on. know y? cuz he probly took the time to read the thread. i'm not aiming for 300+. this is a daily driven vehicle. it's going to retain a full interior. the automatic transmission is going to stay. and there will be absolutely no boost, or juice. thus the thread title.
now i'm sorry for you people that didn't pass the fourth grade and can't read some of the words in this thread (and i'm aware that this is a public forum and people are going to speak their opinions), but most the people in this thread so far have been supportive and knowledgeable. there's a ton of good info in this one thread alone, so let's please try and keep the "lmao y wouldn't u just boost it idiot" retard type talk out of here.
i have my own goals and aspirations for this car, i don't need to explain them to anyone but myself.
so, after all that. can we please get back to the all motor talk we had going on in here, and get away from the boost talk please. let's keep this a clean thread, because as i stated there's alot of good info in here. no need to go clogging it up making it harder to find.
manny hernandez wrote:my kit when is set and done is gonne be under 700 yeah i got lucky lol and my best friend and i share a hp tunner so the tunnign part is taken care off . i just dont see the point of speending all that money and still running low 14s at best if that
I don't see the point of wasting money on a power adder that needs to take power in order to work (read: parasitic belt loss) and brings IATs above 180* on a regular basis. You could peice together a saab turbo kit and make more power.
regardless, OP is asking about n/a. Kindly move along.
so, i got to looking at some cheap test pipes, is there a specific size i need to get for the o2 bung size or is the o2 sensor pretty much universal? also i'm still looking for some info on exhaust megaphones if anyone has any. all i can find are megaphones for bikes lol
Yes a supercharger isn't the most efficient power adder. Turbo is normally the way to go to get the most power efficiently without taking any power away like the SC can do.
If I had gone Turbo in my regal I most likely be in the 11's or possibly 10's but at the risk of my trans clutches not holding up to that much abuse lugging the weight its carrying.
With my stock Eaton M90 I have been able to get my full weight 3600lbs+ car into the 12's @ 110 on pump gas and street tires. Not bad considering stock it runs 15's. If I was N/A modded to hell I most likely be running 14's due to weight.
Don't get me wrong I have seen some fast as hell N/A cars however normally they are gutted to heck because of course power/weight ratio plays a big factor. I used to drive around in a gutted car years ago and it certainly wasn't pleasant experience.
Throwing a turbo onto the car I would say be the best bang for the buck to me unless N/A aftermarket parts are very cheap for these cars? Some N/A builds can be VERY expensive depending on the car. Know of a guy that installed an 8K N/A high compression race motor into his car and personally saw him run low 14's on slicks with it.
All I can say is my base model Cavy with the 5 speed is pretty peppy for what it is. I can't image what it be like throwing some mods into it or turbo.. thing would book.
Good luck with your build dude with whatever you decide to do.
2000 Buick Regal GSE - "Gods Grocery Getter is powered by an L67 3800" -
333WHP
12.900 @ 109.91mph 2.166 60Ft (Fastest 1/4)
13.374 @ 110.01mph 2.467 60Ft (Fastest Trap)
2004 Chevy Cavalier - 15.7 @ 90mph (Semi-Modded)
to go SUPER SUPER fast yes you need a ton of money into an all motor setup.
i firmly believe mid 12's are attainable in a 3rd gen j-body n/a without a wallet busting set-up. with our lighter weight cars, hooking up with 1.8 60's and 230whp will run 12's.
and then there is always nitrous if you want 11's.
If it takes forever.... I will die trying. Underdog Racing
Some motors respond well to N/A builds. It doesnt take much power to make a light car feel quick. N/A isnt the way to go with 3800s in general especially when you have a factory designed supercharged engine to play with it. It surely is cheaper in that world. Ive helped build a 3800 several times. I know how it works. Its easy to make big power on those cars especially on the L36 bottom end. For $1500 I could have a Grand Prix that would run low to mid 13s. But at that point its just a straight line car. 4 cyl in general dont seem to have the exhaust velocity to spool a larger turbo in anything other than the 1/4 mile. And the parasitic loss from spinning an M62 seems useless to me as the loss on the engine gets higher as you pulley-down and rev the engine higher.
Ecos tend to respond very well to bolt-ons and mild porting, cams etc compared to engines like the 3800 on 2200. Its a completely different monster. Comparing an all iron 2 valve per cyl pushrod 6 cyl engine to an aluminum high revving 4 valve per cyl DOHC engine is kind of a moot point. 3800s are strong as a bull but they arent reaally any kind of candidate for an N/A build.
My rant is done.
mid 13's with a full interior and automatic transmission with nothing but engine ftw! and yes, probly n2o eventually.
ive had my 04 eco for a while and im bored with the stock power. how much more would i get with the cat delete? and how would i get away from the limp mode thing?
get a high flow cat with an o2 bung and gut it. or get a test pipe. or just have an exhaust shop weld in a piece of pipe with an o2 bung in it. first page of this very thread would've given you that answer
i read somewhere on here that if you don't have the right o2 reading in the rear o2 sensor that it goes into that stupid limp mode.and the test pipe wouldn't put out the right o2 reading obviously. and i was wondering if that was just bull or if i need to get something for it?
pretty sure that limp mode is a myth. that being said i would still get a bung welded in exhaust piping to run the rear o2.
blucavvy wrote:pretty sure that limp mode is a myth. that being said i would still get a bung welded in exhaust piping to run the rear o2.
better than that, get a junk o2 sensor, cut the plug off, shrink wrap the ends of the wires and then plug it into the rear o2 sensor plug. That way the plug doesnt get corroded and you still have the stock rear o2 sensor incase you go back to stock to sell the car.
1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by:
Kronos Performance
WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Best Eco all motor
LE5 bottom end, stock LE5 HG, AMMFab Street/strip head, comp stage 3's, gm adjustable gears, AMMFab header, 3 inch exhaust, LE5 intake manifold, 62mm rsm tb, or fetter intake manifold. with 75mm ls1 tb
230 whp NA right there..
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
IamQwibby (Eco Meatcake) wrote:Best Eco all motor
L61 bottom end, AMMFab Street/strip head, custom ground cam's, gm adjustable gears, AMMFab header, 2.5 inch exhaust, LE5 intake manifold, 60mm tb,
..
fixed it for ya
as for whoever's asking for updates, not a whole lot at the moment, i'm working on finishing the car's exterior then audio then suspension. by springtime the performance end of the spectrum will come into play again.
need to gather a few more pennies to send my rk crank pulley off to md to have it "modified", when i get it back a/c will come out crank pulley and new belt will go on. the only other performance mod i'm hoping to order before the end of this year is a 2.5" mandrel bent ss exhaust from mark at 0.E.M. then i can throw the tsudo header, and exhaust on early next year, probly when i put suspension on.
hoping by about june i can grab an le5 intake mani, and some custom ground cams, and then send a spare head off to ammfab. need to do some more research on valves/springs and an exhaust megaphone.
i'm really, really hoping to have this thing put together by end of the year next year. so hopefully 2012 will be a good year for blu. for now i'll continue to update my p+m thread with whatever the car gets. as for this thread i'll bump it occassionally when i get new performance oriented mod's on the car.
maybe i shouldn't bump two threads for one car but there's already a lot of good info in this thread alone that newb's should see. and hell i like to reread it every once in awhile just to continue to give myself motivation.
13 second auto eco (n/a) sedan ftw!
IamQwibby (Eco Meatcake) wrote:Best Eco all motor
LE5 bottom end, stock LE5 HG, AMMFab Street/strip head, comp stage 3's, gm adjustable gears, AMMFab header, 3 inch exhaust, LE5 intake manifold, 62mm rsm tb, or fetter intake manifold. with 75mm ls1 tb
230 whp NA right there..
I really dont think the le5 makes for a good n/a bottom end, unless you were going to use an lsj crank and rods with the le5 pistons, then that might be a winner. Maybe its just because I dont think you can rev high enough to make big n/a power with the le5 bottom end.
1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by:
Kronos Performance
WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Leafy wrote:IamQwibby (Eco Meatcake) wrote:Best Eco all motor
LE5 bottom end, stock LE5 HG, AMMFab Street/strip head, comp stage 3's, gm adjustable gears, AMMFab header, 3 inch exhaust, LE5 intake manifold, 62mm rsm tb, or fetter intake manifold. with 75mm ls1 tb
230 whp NA right there..
I really dont think the le5 makes for a good n/a bottom end, unless you were going to use an lsj crank and rods with the le5 pistons, then that might be a winner. Maybe its just because I dont think you can rev high enough to make big n/a power with the le5 bottom end.
Just food for thought...How high do you want to rev? The dilemma is the to run a cam on a 2.0L short stroke build that will make big power will require the solid lash adjuster set. Not many will want to fork out the 1500-2000 for this upgrade just to say they have a 0.500" lift cam and make power to 9k rpm. A well thought out LE5 bottom/L61 head combo is quite capable of a killer n/a build. Even revving to 7-7.5k rpm. With off the shelf parts
On the track, maybe the screamer 2.0 will outperform the "stroker" option, but i can tell you i'd rather have the 2.4L on the street, and my wallet agrees
the problem is with the 2.0 you gotta wring the thing out, with the 2.4 you'll have a larger area under the curve because of displacement, maybe not as high of peak power but more usable power.
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
I've run the 2.4 LE5 bottom end in Desktop Dyno against a 2.2 L61 bottom end...the power increase is so marginal its not worth it. I think it worked out to 2-3whp.
I believe I ran nearly that exact same set-up in DD and it made IIRC around 210whp, might pick up a few more with the intake manifold...but if the runner lenght is incorect...it will more than likely lose power.
It might make better low end than a 2.2, but if you racing at the track, you only see 5000-7500rpm, so IMO it actually will probably make less ussable power....if your goal is to drag race it that is.
