HO cams ftw!!
I have 2 cars with them and will never go back...
Cursed Cav (Luke Heier) wrote:gmanz24 wrote:secret cams revving to 7k = your friend 
cant wait till i get on lukes level this week, HO cams :]
Oh yeah?? Kick ass! You'll have to let me know how that turns out. What do you plan on doing for power steering setup?
i used to have a 2.3 HO motor so i striped it of its power steering everything
ill figure something out
some say HO cams are retarded because 'why would you use stock cams in a performance engine'...
well because of the fact they are utterly HUGE compared to the 2.4's stock puny sticks.
the one thing i just dont understand is why the HO 2.3 only made 180hp... huge cams, no balance shafts, massively flowing intake and head compared to an LD9. i just dont get how that only yielded 180 crank horse power.
but i spose one thing needs pointed out here, the stock 2.3 crank weighs 47.5 lbs whereas the LD9 crank only weighs 43lbs. i think maybe the larger and heavier LD9 crank pulley makes up for that though...
Are you scared of the changes coming? The answer is on the inside.
z yaaaa wrote:some say HO cams are retarded because 'why would you use stock cams in a performance engine'...
well because of the fact they are utterly HUGE compared to the 2.4's stock puny sticks.
the one thing i just dont understand is why the HO 2.3 only made 180hp... huge cams, no balance shafts, massively flowing intake and head compared to an LD9. i just dont get how that only yielded 180 crank horse power.
but i spose one thing needs pointed out here, the stock 2.3 crank weighs 47.5 lbs whereas the LD9 crank only weighs 43lbs. i think maybe the larger and heavier LD9 crank pulley makes up for that though...
im gonna take a wild guess and say it was the reliability of the tune. i was reading up on the ecotec last night and they put a nice tune on it and pulled 168 hp out of it bone stock, im talking stock stock nothing but a tune.
Also have to keep in mind that the HO motor was still GM OBD I and using 80's technology.
.430.........weak!
I know of a set of GRD cams.... heald them in my hands and was going to install them till i saw He had a set of two Ext side cams.. (easy fix, just put the hex in, and drill for the dowl pin)
First, what do you want from your LD9?
That is how you come up with what cams you want\need.
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
ok so wich of these cams would provide the best mid to high range torque for a na build with out sacrificing too much of the low end drivability?
Taetsch Z-24 wrote:
First, what do you want from your LD9?
That is how you come up with what cams you want\need.
Chris
i was looking to pretty much just build a turbocharged beast that could get me in the 11s so i could beat my dads 52' belair. eagle rods, 2.3 oil pump swap, full port and polish, five angle valve job, new guides, valve springs and retainers, crank redone, arp studs, pretty much a full build
i just dont know what compression ratio and what cams to go with.
Taetsch Z-24 wrote:.430.........weak!
First, what do you want from your LD9?
That is how you come up with what cams you want\need.
Chris
I want to get some decent gains. This is gonna be my summer car, that I want to keep building. I will never sell the car. Was gonna get a 350Z but was only offered $2250 for it and I said what the hell, might as well keep it and make it a 13 second car. I want good reliability and decent hp numbers. I'm willing to put the time and effort into getting a really good set of cams that are going to give me some good gains. After I get all the bolt on stuff done this winter I will probably be getting into a fully built engine after that. I'd love to run a mid 13 on the m45 cause there isn't many out there. Anyways, keep the suggestions coming. I emailed LZM about their stage 2 cams, so I'll have to wait till I hear back from them.
brodycog wrote:ok so wich of these cams would provide the best mid to high range torque for a na build with out sacrificing too much of the low end drivability?
Going from personal experience the HO cams really did not like anything below 2000 RPM. My .430's changed that to about 2500 RPM.
so if i understand this high lift would be ok for low rpms considering there is less duration. More duration is better for filling your cylinder at high rpms but will hurt your low rpm torque range. So using more duration a could be almost like changing your timing?
Without getting seriously into cam science I'll try to break down the basics. This is a general description of the main types of cams available from the aftermarket.
Lift - How far the valve will be opened
Duration - How long the valve will be open
Overlap - How long the intake and exhaust valve will be oven for at the same time
Ramp speed - How quickly the valve will open or close
Scavenging - Using the exiting exhaust to draw intake charge into the chamber, the result of overlap.
Volumetric Efficiency - How full the cylinder gets.
Cams are the heart and soul of the engine. They control when the engine breathes and how it breathes. Most oems designs cams to create acceptable power throughout the powerband while still being very comfortable to the driver. The amount of lift, duration and overlap are the basics of the cam lobe profile.
For this discussion lets assume we don't do anything crazy with ramp speeds, which on drop in cams you don't because the stock valvetrain can't take it.
A low lift long duration cam will result in the valve opening slowly and being open for a long time. This would promote cylinder filling at low speeds because as the valve cracks the air velocity is higher. There would be a fair bit of overlap but because of the valves aren't open very far the engine can not take full advantage of the scavenging effect.This is good for low end power ..... like in an RV or a tow rig.
A high lift short duration cam will result in the valve opening quickly, being farther down in the chamber and being closed quickly. The high rate of valve opening decreases intake velocities which result in poor chamber filling at low engine speeds. This cam would have little to no overlap and not take advantage of scavenging. This is good for a turbo/supercharger applications because the turbo/supercharger will fill the chamber, and not having the overlap prevents blow through.
A high lift high duration cam will open the valve quickly and keep it open for a long time. The high rate of valve opening decreases intake velocities which result in poor chamber filling at low engine speeds. Because of the overlap at high engine speeds scavenging happens, resulting in additional air being drawn into the chamber by the exiting exhaust gases. It is possible to achieve over 100 volumetric efficiencies at higher rpms with a well designed cam. This is your typical NA performance cam.
These are generalizations as there are a few other harder to explain factors that play into a well designed cam, and specifically into designing a cam that can make good gains and maintain ease of operation for the driver.
So basically all of us here either want a turbo cam or a NA cam in our cars. Between the secret cams and the stage 2's it really comes down to how much power you want and what you are willing to spend to get it. The stage 2's will make more power, but the secret cams can be had for cheaper. On my Cavalier I would never consider anything but the most power, but in my truck chances are I'd want the cheapest gains I could get.
LG0 Cams are a Great Choice for a turbo build, W41 cams would be nice for a Supercharger build.
Bang for the buck, HO cams, hell even Lo cams (90-94) are great.
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
so the degrees are the duration?
Correct.
For Example
LG0 cams are open for 212* of the circle, and W41 cams are open for 218*, and my cams are open for 432*...
LOL I don't have them installed... but they did not like to idle....
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
Taetsch Z-24 wrote:Correct.
For Example
LG0 cams are open for 212* of the circle, and W41 cams are open for 218*, and my cams are open for 432*...
LOL I don't have them installed... but they did not like to idle....
Chris
So your intake cam is open during the power stroke?
I have no signiture
Taetsch Z-24 wrote:Correct.
For Example
LG0 cams are open for 212* of the circle, and W41 cams are open for 218*, and my cams are open for 432*...
LOL I don't have them installed... but they did not like to idle....
Chris
WOW more than 360* of duration, impressive. Sorry I couldnt resist.
So, how do you suppose the .430/222 cams will like a turbo? Idle with a stock head is a bit choppy, have a ported head waiting for them, just need to put a reliable bottom end under them. I also hope to take them to close to 8K RPM.
its not every day we get to see gm boy make a mistake hahaha im sure he meant the lift though, had to.
its all good, chris.
Are you scared of the changes coming? The answer is on the inside.
so for a turbo build i would want less duration and more lift which would be the HO cams which is the same as LGO cams?
I have my Quad 4 Stage 2 secret cam assembly for sale.
Secret (not so secret)
Camshaft Assembly from the Quad 4
Includes
-Powder Coated intake and exhaust camshaft carriers
-Nearly new Stage 2 Quad 4 intake and exhaust cams with less than 800 miles
-Nearly new lifters with less than 800 miles
GMR has got nothing on this
how much
8 psi with m62 and IAT under 100
z yaaaa wrote:its not every day we get to see gm boy make a mistake hahaha im sure he meant the lift though, had to.
its all good, chris.
LOL
meant 232*
and my 'other' cams (not my W41 cams... that are in the W41lol) are .450 lift.
Clyde... what head?
if you degree the cams.. woot!
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
Taetsch Z-24 wrote:if you degree the cams.. woot!
Chris
how do we do it?
Are you scared of the changes coming? The answer is on the inside.
