a few questions - Performance Forum

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a few questions
Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:13 PM
first, i want to keep my daily drivability, so wich would have the least impact on it. going with the gm supercharger, or putting in 10.5:1 pistons, also would it be a good idea to go with the high compression pistons and a supercharger?

for the exhaust im gonna get a 4-2-1 header, the rest of the exhaust is gonna be custom, i wanted to know how much of the pipe is straight after the cat cause im gonna be puttin in a magnaflow cat then a magnaflow resonator afterwards and wanted to go with as long of a resonator as possible....was also toying with the idea of taking out the 2-1 collector on the header and putting dual exhaust off of the 2 collector so it goes 4-2-dual exhaust....

also with the supercharger is there a special intake tube/filter you have to use for it?

Re: a few questions
Saturday, October 25, 2008 4:13 PM
1)i dont know to much about high compression and boost, but i would say no its not a good idea because its ur daily driver i would stay with 10:1 or 8:9:1
2)U have room to put a 22" resonator and the high flow cat, as for the dual exhaust maybe someone else can help u i cant
3)I see u have the K&N intake just use the elbow off it then buy the AEM CAI and use the tube off it

hope this helps some






Re: a few questions
Saturday, October 25, 2008 4:21 PM
boost needs lower compression from what I've read, high compression with boost would mean the remaining part of the engine would fail quickly.



Re: a few questions
Saturday, October 25, 2008 5:21 PM
High compression and boost is doable, but it is more finicky than low compression and boost. The GMPP supercharger will be fine on your stock engine(as a matter of fact more people are running it on a stock engine than a built engine).

Dont do that dual exhaust crap, it wont be worth it. Just get a exhaust shop to mandrel bend some 2.5" stainless steel pipe and you'll be set.

As for the special intake for the supercharger, at this time no shop/company produces a prefabbed intake for the supercharged J-body ecos. But in the spring i will be traveling to RD Fabs for exhaust work and they will hopefully use my car to put the final touches on their M62/L61 intake.

What is your goal? A spunky daily driver? Or are you looking to try and built a beast?



Re: a few questions
Saturday, October 25, 2008 10:16 PM
looking to get the best build i can without ruining daily drivability, dont want the car to have any serious down time any time soon, take frequent 150+ mile trips (bout 3 per month)
Re: a few questions
Sunday, October 26, 2008 4:17 AM
Well then it looks like the M62 setup is going to be what you want.



Re: a few questions
Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:16 AM
you can absolutely run higher compression an boost, you will make more power in and out of boost with te higher compression but tuning is a must. Personally I wouldn't lower the compression down from 10:1 because of an M62.



Re: a few questions
Monday, October 27, 2008 3:01 AM
another question:
would a turbo setup affect drivability the same as a super charger would?
is there any one who makes a turbo setup for an 04 sunfire?
if find someone that does or put one together myself would there need to be any flashing done to the ecm like with the super charger?
Re: a few questions
Monday, November 10, 2008 2:39 PM
bump?
Re: a few questions
Monday, November 10, 2008 3:34 PM
The two main down-sides of a turbo are:

The room needed for running all the pipes needed to make it work, and...

Lack of instantanious response to throttle inputs.

Other than that, small engines with turbos make wonderful drivers. Since most of the operation & throttle opening they'll see will be when the turbo hasn't "spooled-up" & making boost, they'll be very docile & efficient while keeping the power they make in reserve until the throttle is really cracked open.

As for running boost with high compression... Unless you have access to lead-free fuel of a race-grade octane level, or plan on converting to run alcohol (Albeit ethanol or methanol), I wouldn't go looking to run any kind of boost numbers (Like barely any, if any at all!) with 10:1 or more compression... Even if you O-ringed & studded the head.


Go beyond the "bolt-on".
Re: a few questions
Monday, November 10, 2008 4:28 PM
Hahn Racecraft makes a bolt on turbo kit for eco J's.




Re: a few questions
Tuesday, November 11, 2008 1:08 PM
according to the hahn site their turbo systems are for only manual's
would there be any problems putting one on a auto?
Re: a few questions
Tuesday, November 11, 2008 1:26 PM
also what about launching with the revlimiter being so low on stock tune?
Re: a few questions
Tuesday, November 11, 2008 1:27 PM
you would have to have the charge pipes worked over, they dont fit with the auto.





Re: a few questions
Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:58 PM
10.5 is fine for compression with cast pistons on no more than around 6 to 7 psi. But on forged pistons you would be good for atleast 16psi on race gas if not more. I'm running 10.7 in my 95 ta at 12 to 14(cold night) with mahle forged pistons and h-beams on 93. So its do able i would get rods though. On another note running that high of compression with boost you will likely running into detenation in high boost uses. But if your going to stick with the gm charger you will be fine.

I know they also say (well i've atleast been told) that lower compression will yield better results due to being able to force more air into to combustion chamber because you would have more volume. Now if there is any truth to that i'm not sure.
Re: a few questions
Tuesday, November 11, 2008 4:06 PM
Nickelin Dimer wrote:Lack of instantanious response to throttle inputs.


believe it or not, that's a common mis-conception these days. with all this new crap going on, the slower or lack of instant responce from the turbo/turbo's, also called turbo lag, is nearly gone.



Re: a few questions
Tuesday, November 11, 2008 4:34 PM
if a turbo is the right size for the application it is installed on there will almost no turbo lag just a nice linear boost curve
Re: a few questions
Tuesday, November 11, 2008 5:19 PM
Everybody is boost crazy right now. If you want to keep it a daily driver just drive it stock and buy another one to play with. Or just do the typical bolt ons:
1-CAI
2-Header
3-Cat back exhaust
4-UDP
5-Solid motor mounts & Tranny mounts
6-HPT

Some will argue that by the time you get all that stuff you could've gotten a turbo kit. But, the point you brung up several times is "daily driver" which usually means "I want power but I'm afraid it will break."
My point is you will be happy (at least for a little while) with the little bit of power you add, but you'll be tempted every day to turn up the boost with that turbo.

BTW- the above bolt ons only add up to a little over $1500. Turbo kit (non intercooled) = $2600




Re: a few questions
Tuesday, November 11, 2008 5:21 PM
One more note:
With the bolt ons you should be in the high 14 second range. Some have failed to do that WITH the turbo kit.




Re: a few questions
Tuesday, November 11, 2008 6:10 PM
I'd say work your way up slowly if it's a daily driver.

I started off completly stock. Then added these over a few months time.

1: AEM CAI (Gave me a few months of funn, loved the sound it made when you pressed hard on the gas)
2: Full exhaust. Pacesetter coated 4-1 header, high flow cat, 2.25 piping, magnaflow muffs. It was a bit TOO loud for me, then i had him put in a resonater, helped a lot, and as I drove more then sound became more bearable, and now im really happy with it.
3. Strut tower brace. Cheap, easy to install, and I actually noticed a lot less roll and more confidence taking corners at higher speeds.
4. Eagle f1 gs-d3 tires, holds WAY better then the stock tires.

Now after about 8 months since puchase of my first mod I'm going to boost with the GM SC. If I were you i'd just do a mod here and there over time. Spread out the funn instead of getting it all at once. Who knows you might even want to switch to another type of car or go a different route with your mods.
Re: a few questions
Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:28 PM
Brad wrote:
Nickelin Dimer wrote:Lack of instantanious response to throttle inputs.


believe it or not, that's a common mis-conception these days. with all this new crap going on, the slower or lack of instant responce from the turbo/turbo's, also called turbo lag, is nearly gone.

Silly me... I can't believe that with all I've been reading that I forgot how proper sizing of a turbo can eliminate lag. I should have remembered that from what I've seen on diesel engines!


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Re: a few questions
Tuesday, November 11, 2008 9:27 PM
so basicly what i have listed in my profile for future mods is all i should get it i want to keep my drivability?
Re: a few questions
Tuesday, November 11, 2008 9:45 PM
andrew green wrote:also what about launching with the revlimiter being so low on stock tune?

what do you mean the rev limiter is so low?


2001 Olds Alero (LD9)
650 whp / 543 ft-lb
@turboalero
Re: a few questions
Wednesday, November 12, 2008 6:04 AM
auto? in neutral in an auto tranny J, you can only bet the RPM's up to 4,000-4,500. could that be what the Andrew means?



Re: a few questions
Wednesday, November 12, 2008 12:58 PM
yes and if you go to drive any higher than about 2500 then it bogs down and you get no launch, but dont get me wrong you get a better launch that way than you would just braking and reving
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