spring article
from that article madjack said that these springs below would be the better option of the two that were listed in that article. Since you have you have an 01 we need 1.600 inches of installed height, so the ones that you posted a link of would be too small i believe from the quick glance i took of them. Also though he does not mention which retainer to use with the springs so that we can have the desired height or if they will work with 1.6 roller rockers and 1mm oversize/stainless valves. They will however prevent valve float and not produce a ton of wear on valve train parts because of their seat pressure not being as high. hope this helps and maybe they can chime in with some more knowledge.
12589774
Valve Springs (not shown)
• Beehive style springs
• Standard L76/L92 springs
• 1.800" installed height @ 90# pressure
• 1.300" @ 264# pressure (a rate of 348# / inch)
• Max lift .530"
how about edelbrock #5794 o.d./i.d. - 1.265"/.880" 1.700"
link
on the spec sheets I have i couldn't find spring ID or OD of the LN2 but that spring looks like it might be able to be used on our motors. I only saw there seat pressure though and not pressure when the valve is open. If it says that it has a installed height of 1.700" and has a pressure of 76-84 lbs im thinking that if it were installed at 1.600" then the seat pressure would actually be bumped up a little bit. Like i said im still trying to learn all of this stuff but hopefully one of the more knowledgeable guys can chime in.
i just need something to let me run 20psi and not worry about valve float. and i dont want to have to machine anything. not trying to rev to 7grand either. and not a real big cam maybe a little one
DRIVE HARD OR DONT DRIVE AT ALL!!!
If you used the 95-97 valves and locks etc., you can use the ls6 valve springs the same as a 95-97 engine can. Im not sure what else you need to swap to do this, but i think thats about it.
steve white wrote:If you used the 95-97 valves and locks etc., you can use the ls6 valve springs the same as a 95-97 engine can. Im not sure what else you need to swap to do this, but i think thats about it.
That gives you uneven installed height between I & E. You still need to do machining (plus you'll need different p-rods for I & E...)
CAVI.DEMON wrote:i just need something to let me run 20psi and not worry about valve float. and i dont want to have to machine anything. not trying to rev to 7grand either. and not a real big cam maybe a little one
RPMs need stiffer springs. Agressive cam ramps need stiffer springs. Boost, not really. I'm sure you'll be fine on low milage stockers.
Luis Marroquin wrote:on the spec sheets I have i couldn't find spring ID or OD of the LN2 but that spring looks like it might be able to be used on our motors. I only saw there seat pressure though and not pressure when the valve is open. If it says that it has a installed height of 1.700" and has a pressure of 76-84 lbs im thinking that if it were installed at 1.600" then the seat pressure would actually be bumped up a little bit. Like i said im still trying to learn all of this stuff but hopefully one of the more knowledgeable guys can chime in.
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
so as of now there are no springs that can be swaped in? and what all is bad about the jbp ones. i have just the springs. had for about a year and a half now just sittin. but realy i plan on running the stock cam, upgrade the lifters with the LT1 internals i beleive, and stock valve springs, stock rev limit, 20psi. think i would be ok? I just dont want to do any machineing and getting custom pushrods.
DRIVE HARD OR DONT DRIVE AT ALL!!!
Dude your in the same boat as me.
OHV notec wrote:steve white wrote:If you used the 95-97 valves and locks etc., you can use the ls6 valve springs the same as a 95-97 engine can. Im not sure what else you need to swap to do this, but i think thats about it.
That gives you uneven installed height between I & E. You still need to do machining (plus you'll need different p-rods for I & E...)
CAVI.DEMON wrote:i just need something to let me run 20psi and not worry about valve float. and i dont want to have to machine anything. not trying to rev to 7grand either. and not a real big cam maybe a little one
RPMs need stiffer springs. Agressive cam ramps need stiffer springs. Boost, not really. I'm sure you'll be fine on low milage stockers.
Luis Marroquin wrote:on the spec sheets I have i couldn't find spring ID or OD of the LN2 but that spring looks like it might be able to be used on our motors. I only saw there seat pressure though and not pressure when the valve is open. If it says that it has a installed height of 1.700" and has a pressure of 76-84 lbs im thinking that if it were installed at 1.600" then the seat pressure would actually be bumped up a little bit. Like i said im still trying to learn all of this stuff but hopefully one of the more knowledgeable guys can chime in.
sweet notec exactly what i needed!
CAVLDEMON- i think the problem with the jbp ones was that the pressure was just too high for our application and therefore destroying and creating tons of wear on our valve train. I think that if you pm madjack and as him about the springs i posted and what locks to use with them you should be golden, along if your using 1.6 rollers or not.
its not the money. its just i dont have a spare head and i saw what happened to juicedz4's motor from puting custom lifters in. im just afraid something is goin to F*&K up. what exactly has to be done to use aftermarket springs. what springs, retainers, locks, how much machining down of the valve spring seats, what length pushrods. If I do do all this i will be useing the stock rockers for added piece of mind.
DRIVE HARD OR DONT DRIVE AT ALL!!!
are there any spings that will fit the 2200 that would just need the seats cut down for them to fit?
CAVI.DEMON wrote:its not the money. its just i dont have a spare head and i saw what happened to juicedz4's motor from puting custom lifters in. im just afraid something is goin to F*&K up. what exactly has to be done to use aftermarket springs. what springs, retainers, locks, how much machining down of the valve spring seats, what length pushrods. If I do do all this i will be useing the stock rockers for added piece of mind.
SO_hardcore wrote:are there any spings that will fit the 2200 that would just need the seats cut down for them to fit?
LS1 springs (stock, Comp, any single beehive meant for the LS1) can be used by just taking .200" off the spring seat. If you want more lift than stock w/ 1.6 rockers, you also need to turn down the valve guides (VERY IMPORTANT!!!). This is the simplest way to get springs in,
HOWEVER it has yet to be confirmed that there is enough meat on the valve spring seat for this process...
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
well how much meat would you say would have to be left to be safe? If Scarab doesnt cut up that head like he says i may have to do it to the one i got in my basement...... And what do you mean " turn down the valve guide" keep in mind im learning all this for the first time. Thanks.
what he means is you have to machine down the valve guide also. and notec, can you use stock length pushrods? and can you use stock locks and retainers. or use ls1 retainers and locks for the springs?
DRIVE HARD OR DONT DRIVE AT ALL!!!
SO_hardcore wrote:well how much meat would you say would have to be left to be safe? If Scarab doesnt cut up that head like he says i may have to do it to the one i got in my basement...... And what do you mean " turn down the valve guide" keep in mind im learning all this for the first time. Thanks.
Well, keep in mind, mine's a 2200 head, so if anyone needs info on the 2.2, well, you're out of luck as its completely different.
And don't worry, it WILL get cut up. I almost ended up doing it tonight but I want to get some pictures to include in my build guide before I do that, and I keep forgetting to grab the digicam before I make it out the door.
Last night I did CC the chamber and ports, however, as well as taking a digital caliper to a few areas. May not even be useful information, but I'm of the opinion that its better to have more data than you need, than not enough. I'll include this info as part of the head dissection thread I'll be making later on (and hopefully managing to get stickied if Dave or a mod is feeling uber generous that day).
ANYWAY, as to the spring seats, and I'll use the disclaimer "FROM THE LOOK OF IT AT THIS POINT IN TIME", there should be no problem machining out the spring seats on the 2200 head to a .090-.100 less than stock height. The intake ports I will say 100% will not be a problem, the exhausts I won't feel 100% confident in until I make a cut, but they sit on an angle and the taller side is a whole 1/4 off the surface below. so thats .250 you have to take from.... As to the lower side, thats where I have to make a cut to be sure as the area near it is too obstructed to get my smallest scale in there for a measurement, but I can say I'm about 90% right now that it will be just fine. Now, the trick here is that I doubt there's going to be enough meat to machine out .200", which is what we'd need to do to keep the regular 2200-length valves. So you'll more likely than not need either custom valves, or 2.2 liter valves to be able to run the LS6-style springs. Which could potentially bring us to another issue- the exhaust valve on #4 cylinder already cuts it pretty close to the wall of the head, so much so that it was a little tricky to get my valve spring compressor in there to get it out. I'm nervouse that a taller valve/spring combination may become an issue. It shouldn't effect clearance, with a stock diameter spring, but it might with something wider. Hopefully I'll be able to get you that data soon.
Unfortunately since I've been really swamped at work I haven't had a whole lot of time to play around with it, but I'm hoping to get at least one slice out of it (probably the cylinder 4 exhaust port) by Saturday morning, and I'll do my best to post the pic by the end of the weekend. Can't promise anything though, as its up to the all powerful factory gods as to if I get the time or not.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
thanks man. i really want to do this swap. and by useing stock length valves we can use stock length pushrods correct?
DRIVE HARD OR DONT DRIVE AT ALL!!!
umm, i'd have no idea at the moment... I'm sure Jack, Notec, or Slow could answer that though... They're the real experts, I'm still playing serious catch-up.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Just like i put in the other post, im pretty excited to see what you come up with and also very thankful that someone is taking the time and the cash to do it so that we have the knowledge out there.
couldn't we use K-Motion K-700 on the 2200 if we machine the seats down .100" ?
what was the installed height on the K-motions again? I remember Jack mentioning that setup. If the installed height is only 1.700", then yeah, those would probably work.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
K Motion K-700
# 1.265'' Dia. Single Silicon Valve Springs,
#Seat Load: 120lbs @ 1.700''
# Open Load: 375lbs @ 1.150''
# Coil Bind: 1.050''
# Max Lift: .500''
