So yeah, how does the Secret Cam swap actually effect the power band.
I was reading that it moves it toward the higher end of the RPM's. it also sounds like it increases HP aboove 3500rpm, and looses power under that. (proabably form the shifting of the powerband). does it increase max HP,and max TQ?

I guess im just trying to verify some of this, and see if anyone could hit me with some more knowlegde.

thanks

Yes it does does it increase max HP and max TQ, but tellin' you how much more I couldn't tell you. I love my cams, and they have even done well with turbo's and they just sound great in those upper RPM's too. I have two intake cams layin' around still, but I've not gone to find any exhaust cams in a while. Worth the money if you ask me.

Truly no one can tell you 100% that it increases hp. Reason being noone has dynoed before and after (except for way back in the day a claim of 20hp increase). That was soo lone ago and no proof. I have the cams and have always loved them. My last dyno was only 145whp. I gained 7whp with cams header, tranny mounts. My car was running really rich on the dyno which could be part of the reason. What I'm getting at is most people would think I would gain more than 7hp with a header and full exhaust and the cams. I would expect 7hp on just the header and full exhaust. Another guy who posted on here with my mods and no cams was 2hp less than me. So we could say the cams gave me 2 hp, so yes a increase just not what most have expected from this mod. This also shows the butt dyno's on this site are WAY off!



FU Tuning

i put down 151.4 whp and 149.9 wtrq with header/full exhuast, and JUST the LO exhuast cam- i had the stock intake cam in. cheapy homemade intake, engine/tranny mounts and a centerforce clutch.

all this with a beat to piss 2.4 that the previous owner sprayed nitrous all the time with.

so yes, im saying the cams are worth it, definatly.

z yaaaa wrote:i put down 151.4 whp and 149.9 wtrq with header/full exhuast, and JUST the LO exhuast cam- i had the stock intake cam in. cheapy homemade intake, engine/tranny mounts and a centerforce clutch.

all this with a beat to piss 2.4 that the previous owner sprayed nitrous all the time with.

so yes, im saying the cams are worth it, definatly.

But yet you have no dyno numbers from before the cams, and you do not have both cams so you can not say that with 100% certain.
There is also a old saying that when you juice a motor it will be fast even when off juice.

Again the way of the org is to buy mods cheap even if no proof of how they help or don't help. No one dyno's on the org ( I mean this loosely, because some of the hard core do), but most only after they have done everything they want to do.



FU Tuning

you stayed right next to me on the interstate,

i was pissed!

but my charger was a,,,little. warn

lol id say well worth the time and money.

Chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Taetsch Z24 wrote:you stayed right next to me on the interstate,

i was pissed!

but my charger was a,,,little. warn

lol id say well worth the time and money.

Chris

For the power my car put down it runs REALLY strong!!!! I'm basing my info strickly off proof, and the org does not like to hear running with a modded Supercharged Z that previously ran 13.9 as proof. I have also beaten another supercharged Z with alky injection recently as well. Strickly off dyno numbers they are not out there. That is the only way to prove they make power.



FU Tuning

thanks for the info... i already have a set sitting next to me and they are going in. I guess i was just looking for someone with dyno sheets. to visually see the changes.

bottem line is I was basically was trying to figure out if the secret cams pushed the power band out of the stock RPM range enough to actually hurt performance.I understand that to fully utilize this swap, the rev limits need to be upped, which is a whole nother story.

i would say they dont push the power out of a useable range, but they do push it up and i love them, i was actually scared i did something wrong when i installed mine cuz of the low rpms seemed dead then i actually gave it some gas and was like . i now have another z that has everything the previous one had on it, full exhaust, header, 2.3 goodies, and i miss those cams the car is just not the same with out them

The whole idea of the secret cams is they work in our cars with no mods. I am getting the cams soon and plan on doing a before and after dyno to prove the argument one way or another. From what i have read the cams work better if you have I/E, especially the 2.3 intake mani.

PSN ID: Phatchance249

Liquidplamsa wrote:thanks for the info... i already have a set sitting next to me and they are going in. I guess i was just looking for someone with dyno sheets. to visually see the changes.

bottem line is I was basically was trying to figure out if the secret cams pushed the power band out of the stock RPM range enough to actually hurt performance.I understand that to fully utilize this swap, the rev limits need to be upped, which is a whole nother story.

I meant to comment on this part as well. I have dyno sheets from my 97 Z24 with basic bolt ons and my 2001 Z24 with basic bolt ons and then with the cams and header full exhaust etc.... The power band never changed (except for being a little more smooth, but still choppy).
From looking at the dyno sheets power still starts to fall just a very little just before redline. I do not think extending the rev limiter will benefit anything at all. I do fell a proper tune would gain alot. I feel that this mod is not one that you slap in and get power, but put in and with a tune get power. I plan to get tuned using HPT in the near future and hopefuly my gains will come up.
I hope others will dyno before and after because we do need it and on more than one car.



FU Tuning

According to the information I have available (from NY J-Body & JBO), the stock peak numbers are 155lb-ft @ 2400 & 4400 rpm and 150 hp @ 5600rpm.

DISCLAIMER: All information was derived from the changes on the program only, not comparing the stock numbers to the program's numbers, which would be comparing apples to oranges. The program only does 500 rpm steps, so all info is rounded out to the nearest 500 rpm point. These changes are theoretical only, your changes will vary!

I plugged the stock dimensions into Desktop Dyno to get the closest numbers as possible to the stock dyno graph. (note: I didn't have the stock intake center-line and lobe centers, so I played with these numbers till I got as close as possible to the stock graph. I also had to play with the intake and exhaust manifold designs to get close to the stock numbers.) I was able to get relatively close numbers to the stock graph (slightly over stock peaks to adjust for timing and fuel curves, the program adjusts automatically for best peak numbers, not emissions, fuel economy and longevity.)

Changing only the duration @ .050" and the lift numbers, the peaks did move and there was a loss of low end torque.

The Horsepower peak moved from 5600rpm to 6000rpm and a gain of 9 hp from my program's peak numbers before and after.
As stated before there was a loss of low end torque, from 4500 rpm and below. The torque did increase from 5000 rpm and up(which is why the HP increased). The funny part is the peak torque stayed at 4500 rpm, but dropped 2 lb-ft at peak, according to the programs numbers.

The average loss of torque from 4500 rpm and below, was 4.66 lb-ft. The average gain from 5000 rpm to 7000 rpm was 9.83 lb-ft. The overall average change is +2.83 lb-ft, most of which occurs in the operating band of the motor in race conditions. This means you should be slightly quicker. Remember that average gains will usually result in far better results than peak gains.

As stated above, I only changed the duration and lift numbers for the cams and all the information is on the changes the program stated were made. When using headers, larger TB, increased compression, ported head and any other mod the gain will usually be greater, since the changes would normally help the power band of the cams.

i want that program

once i find a new job i plan on doing a before and after dyno run of these on my new z just so we have it

ok, this will help out i think. on my dyno sheets (in my registry) no power was gained after 5900 rpms. so, although i only had the LO xhuast cam, im saying that if it moved the powerband at all... thats sad.

John Higgins wrote:

Taetsch Z24 wrote:you stayed right next to me on the interstate,

i was pissed!

but my charger was a,,,little. warn

lol id say well worth the time and money.

Chris

For the power my car put down it runs REALLY strong!!!! I'm basing my info strickly off proof, and the org does not like to hear running with a modded Supercharged Z that previously ran 13.9 as proof. I have also beaten another supercharged Z with alky injection recently as well. Strickly off dyno numbers they are not out there. That is the only way to prove they make power.

luckely for my you still had the stock clutch and flywheel.

your car was really strong, at that track i loved when i ate that WRX alive. lol that was funney, all the ricers FREEKED.


Chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

johns car runs well.

I remember the post that had the Dyno about 4-5 years ago. It was some guys from Canada. They Dynoed the car before the Cam swap but they also did a ported exhaust manifold and they actually got a 15hp gain from both that is the only Dyno i know that has been done. They were the one who first tried the Cam swap.


2004 Grand Prix GTP (Competition Group)
SOLD-->1999 Z24 5M-#30 to register on JBO
"You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people'
all the time