Is there really that much of a difference in power gain, Is it worth the money to get the head machined to fit them? I will be building my motor and head soon and just wondering if its worth the time/effort/money?
Failure is not failure if you learn from it
yes its worth it especially with a P&P
The one, the only, ME.
No it's not worth it. Extra effort and work spent on valve seats for MAYBE 3 - 4 CFM. Not 1mm oversized. Not worth it at all.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
I agree with Spotabee. 3-4 cfm isn't a great gain. Besides you can make up for the cfm loss by making the cam duration longer and the lift higher.
Real PnP and valve job done by a certified shop with a flow bench can run from $700-$1000. Then $200 for the valves = $900-$1200. You could go and buy a PnP & oversized valved head from Patriot Performance for about the same price.
In my book, a gain is a gain, and every little bit helps. Just decide if you think it's worth YOUR time and money.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
^^ This is true. However, the time and money involved in working the valve seats and the head for 1mm oversize? Na.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
But don't you need the 1mm oversixed valves when you get the p&p? Or can you continue to use the stock valves?
~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
you can use the stock valves on a P&P
The one, the only, ME.
^^ Thanks, lol btw I meant oversized, not oversixed.
~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
275hp and 306 torque out of a 2.2 ohv with a ported head & stock sized stainless steel valves.
275hp & 306tq - 1999 2.2 ohv
13.2 @ 108 mph
-1996 2.4 liter + Turbo + Built motor + Torco + More boost = Lots o' Power
-2000 Mustang GT + 2004 Cobra motor, Whipple 2.3 supercharger,
built rear-end,Dodge Viper spec T56 6 speed, bolt-ons = wheelies at the track!!!!!
id say also every little bit helps so its up to you if you want to put the money into doing it
The one, the only, ME.
Caro @ Car Customs sell the vale for $100 for stock or 1mm over, so the cost is no different. As far as machining the seats, it's the same amout of work, so the price should be the same. On boost, it should give you a little more than on a N/A motor.
OHV notec wrote:In my book, a gain is a gain, and every little bit helps. Just decide if you think it's worth YOUR time and money.
Agreed.
If you have the means and money, go for it ESPECIALLY if you're boosted.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
so it doesnt really matter as much on a NA engine? what about using after market valves like the ones from car customs? do they do anything different than stock valves or do they just flow better or something? just wondering cuz i ordered some stuff and i was wondering about ordering new valves from karo
cavipower1 wrote:so it doesnt really matter as much on a NA engine? what about using after market valves like the ones from car customs? do they do anything different than stock valves or do they just flow better or something? just wondering cuz i ordered some stuff and i was wondering about ordering new valves from karo
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but Velocity would play into effect if you go too big. I know for example that my head is made for forced induction because the port job is just too big and I'm not supplying enough airflow with my camshafts...I believe my friend calculated that my head is 2 times bigger than it should be. If you were ever to drive my car you would see that my powerband is shfited upwards, meaning, if I didn't have a limiter, I would probably be making power even close to the limiter or possibly beyond the limiter (maybe if I had bigger n/a cams it would be past 6800 RPMs still making power).
Now, if I was running forced induction (which I will be in a couple months
) size doesn't matter because there is something that is blowing or pushing constant airflow and not really using the cams overlap to make power.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Adler wrote:275hp and 306 torque out of a 2.2 ohv with a ported head & stock sized stainless steel valves.
Yeah, but imagine what you could have made with bigger vavles getting more air in and out.
Yes they are worth it and the cost is about the same to have to valves seats redone for stock or 1mm bigger valves.
The port and polish opens up the ports why woudl you want to leave the stock restictive valve in there. Stainless steel doesnt help flow at all, it only helps from not burning up under higher temps seen in a boosted engine.
Also not sure about the valves the Karo is selling but the ones i got from SI Valves are udercut at the head of the valves for increased flow also.
Everything helps and it all adds up to more air in equals more air out whichs means more horsepower.
Mike
1992 GMC Sonoma GT #492. Oh, Its just a stock V6!
1999 Cavalier Coupe, daily driver, 2200/M5. Mods and pics are in my registry.
+
That pretty much says it all.
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The stock size valves aren't that restrictive. In my opinion, you'll be just fine with Karo's stainless steel stock size valves.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
Mike, The valves that Karo sell are undercut. Stainless steel is less heat resistant than the stock steel, but unless your timing is way off, they will hold up just fine. Stainless does have a better work fatige life than stock, which resluts in a longer lasting valve, with a slightly less chance of fatige fracturing.
Spotabee, The stock valves are good for low to mid range torque, the idea GM had while designing this motor. Even with a P&P, the 1mm oversized valve are just a small loss in intake velocity, but do help a little with the mid to upper ranges with a stock computer's 6000rpm limit, without any noticible loss on the low end.. On a boosted motor the gains would be more noticeable, with the reduced restriction on the air flow. The cost is no different between the stock and the 1mm over and the valve job costs the same, either size. Infact, you get a better seat face with the oversized valve and a lager area for wear, which leads to a longer lasting valve job, without the valve sinking further into the head and having to adjust for the spring installed hight.
IMO there is alot more debating then there needs to be (not that its a bad thing) like people always say "horsepower isn't cheap" in the end more power is more power, there is no formula that says it is or isn't worth it, it either makes more power or it doesn't. Perosnally if I were you if your building the whole engine just do it right and do it all the first time, have it apart one time.
