whats uup everyone .. well i will be getting a spare 2200 head and i will do everything i can to it to make a NA performance motor .. i'm starting with the head cause i heard its the best place to start ... my question is what can i do to the head to get the most performance out of it . if it matter i plan on running 11.5:1 or 12:1 compression pistons with a stage 2 cam from j body performance . any information is greatly appreciated .
with the 2200 motor, the valvetrain and head is where you will gain the most power. An aftermarket cam and built head will give you quite a bit of gain. If you want more after that, then I would work on the bottom end, like forged rods and high compression pistons. I wouldn't worry about a bigger throttle body because the stock one is plenty big for a NA motor.
ok soudsgood... i just wanted tommake sure i was heading in the right direction . thasnks
indeed. i would have the head ported and polished, polish your combustion chambers for a little compression bump. do rockers, as much ARP @!#$ as you can get, good lifters, the JBP Stage 2 cam works wonders. Of course, that isn't in the head, you have to pull the motor to pull the cam. Personally I'd wait until you do forged internals so you can do it all at once.
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yeah spotabee that sounds like a good idea ... i can get a head for 195 with shipping so friday i gonna go get it and just start building it up i'm gonna do everything possible to do with the head and buy the cam also then i will probly buy a spare block and build that up and put them together and 1 weekend get together with my friend at his shop and swap out the motors and kep the old one just to be safe ... when i'm done i plan to make atleast 175 hp at the wheels .... hopefully more but 175 at the wheels is good for me .
blade0604 wrote:yeah spotabee that sounds like a good idea ... i can get a head for 195 with shipping so friday i gonna go get it and just start building it up i'm gonna do everything possible to do with the head and buy the cam also then i will probly buy a spare block and build that up and put them together and 1 weekend get together with my friend at his shop and swap out the motors and kep the old one just to be safe ... when i'm done i plan to make atleast 175 hp at the wheels .... hopefully more but 175 at the wheels is good for me .
that's a reasonable goal. i do like your idea. keep a fresh block there just incase something happens to your rotating assembly.
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wouldn't polishing the combustion chambers lower compression? Less material in the combustion chamber = larger cylinder volume = lower compression..
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"The J's weren't designed to be sports cars, the suspension sucks, the brakes are tiny, and the target market for our car doesn't need to be able to do any more than 65mph." - Shifted
A more accurate observation has never been typed. These should be the starting points before any serious performance modification. What's the point of making a serious performer if you can't control it's power?
thanks spotabee ....yeah hopefull i will get the head within the next week or so...... i'm trying to decide wheather to buy a block too or build the head up then when i;'m done with the head buy the block and build it up ... i dunno .. lol all i know is the head comes first .i need to go to the dyno so i can see what my car puts down as it is with air intake and full exhaust .. then when i;'m done with the motor. 175 seems pretty easy to get to once u think about it .. just time, patience, and money..... lol passion for j's man .. i love them ...
Xavier Canon wrote:wouldn't polishing the combustion chambers lower compression? Less material in the combustion chamber = larger cylinder volume = lower compression..
eh @!#$ you are correct. i dunno what i was thinking.
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blade0604 wrote:yeah spotabee that sounds like a good idea ... i can get a head for 195 with shipping so friday i gonna go get it and just start building it up i'm gonna do everything possible to do with the head and buy the cam also then i will probly buy a spare block and build that up and put them together and 1 weekend get together with my friend at his shop and swap out the motors and kep the old one just to be safe ... when i'm done i plan to make atleast 175 hp at the wheels .... hopefully more but 175 at the wheels is good for me .
Good luck at that 175 without crank work
N2O + Bolt-ons
= 220Hp/
250Tq
Coming Soon:HpTunersPro, EagleConnectingRods, WiescoPistons, 13sec2200
Bballjamal (Cav-AtL) wrote:blade0604 wrote:yeah spotabee that sounds like a good idea ... i can get a head for 195 with shipping so friday i gonna go get it and just start building it up i'm gonna do everything possible to do with the head and buy the cam also then i will probly buy a spare block and build that up and put them together and 1 weekend get together with my friend at his shop and swap out the motors and kep the old one just to be safe ... when i'm done i plan to make atleast 175 hp at the wheels .... hopefully more but 175 at the wheels is good for me .
Good luck at that 175 without crank work
he has a point. send your crank to JBP for some tender love and care
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yeah i know ...i plan to hit that mark when i am done with the motor itelf .. i'm just consentrating on head work for now ... once the head is done the block comes next...
Xavier Canon wrote:wouldn't polishing the combustion chambers lower compression? Less material in the combustion chamber = larger cylinder volume = lower compression..
Yep, but it also eliminates hot spots that can cause detonation and also can help allow a more even flame front for better power production. Since he plans on doing pistons eventually it won't be a problem.
My advice to the original poster would be to pick up a whole spare engine. They're on ebay for approx $200-300 all the time, with low miles. If you get one with 20K miles or so depending on the pistons you choose you might not even have to bore out the block, just hone it, then get the rotating assembly balanced (very important since to get high NA numbers out of it you'll want at least another 500 rpm over what the limiter allows you, and balancing will help reduce oscillations that can kill your crank and bearings).
Also, remember that 11.5 or 12:1 compression may require more than your standard 93 octane gas, or at least a buttload of timing retard (less power) in order to run pump gas. I think you could definitely get a good streetable motor thats near your power goals with 10:1 compression, and still be able to run pump gas. Event and Scrufdog have auto trans' and I know Scrug dynoed at just under 180hp and both of them run 10:1 compression. I'm not sure what Event's motor put out, not sure if he ever had it dynoed. Maybe he'll chime in and grace us with his presence.
Dammit, i hate these posts because everytime i chime in on one it makes me start itching to build my own OHV, but i just can't allocate the funds right now.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
lol scarab .... yeah i'm very excited on doing this build ... the underdog motor being built to be a high performance motor ...makes me smile thinkin bout it . yeah i would like all the people that work on 2200 give advice ... pj (flyin squirel ) event, and scrufdog.... i would just like to know what yall did to yall motor to make the power... oh and would my fuel system need to be changed or upgraded? or anything with the transmission .. i have a 4 speed auto . i have the b&m shift plus . thanks again for the interest.
I have a spare 2200 head, im willing to sell it for 100 plus shipping if ur interested.
i might be geting one for 75 .. i waiting on his email back with the shiping cost .. but thanks anyway .
blade0604 wrote:lol scarab .... yeah i'm very excited on doing this build ... the underdog motor being built to be a high performance motor ...makes me smile thinkin bout it . yeah i would like all the people that work on 2200 give advice ... pj (flyin squirel ) event, and scrufdog.... i would just like to know what yall did to yall motor to make the power... oh and would my fuel system need to be changed or upgraded? or anything with the transmission .. i have a 4 speed auto . i have the b&m shift plus . thanks again for the interest.
Well, skwirl's packin a ported head with JBP stainless steel valves, valvesprings, keepers, and locks. Also chromoly pushrods but stock rockers since there was some kind of mixup and the studs were too small or too big or something. Through the midrange, and eco cav can just barely creep on him, his main disadvantage is that with the head ported and valvetrain upgraded he can make power past the rev limiter which he can't pass right now. The 500 rpm difference means the eco can jump ahead while he shifts and falls back. Other than that he's rksport 4:1 header and exhaust, intake, motor mounts. As far as i can remember thats it for power mods. I'd love to see what that car could do with a 6500 rpm rev limit, lighter flywheel, and the crane rockers. Not to mention non-price-club tires, and fixing the leaky dual exhaust
Scruf's site is a little haphazard but has some valuable info.. Last i checked it was still www.scrufdog.com
From what I've heard the Greddy Emanage works decently with the 2200 ecu (me and exterminator had a nightmare with it on his 04 eco but haven't seen any problems reported from OHV users). That, coupled with an adjustable fpr should probably be enough for fuel managament but the only way to know is to build the engine, and get a wideband O2 sensor to keep tabs. I can't really see you needing much bigger than stock injectors, but I could be wrong. The Emanage's ignition retard/advance control will definitely prove invaluable with higher compression.
As far as transmission, i'm not very familiar with the 4t40e but if you do any racing with an auto trans, INSTALL A TRANS COOLER!!! And a decent sized one at that. The biggest one you can fit without compromising your radiator's airflow. That is of course, so long as you don't live somewhere where the winters are cold enough to freeze trans fluid
If you plan on a lot of racing, you may want to take it to a trans shop that knows performance applications and can help you out.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
ok thanks scarab. great info
wow this is a great post to just sit and watch for me cause i would have asked all these questions and just waste another post subject when all my info is here. cept i got a 5 spd. thanks blade for reading my mind and posting on this. answered alot of my ?s already
ur welcome carbon cavi ... i know there are quite a few people out there with the 2200 that want to go all motor . i'm glad to know i'm helping out . atleast you have a 5 speed... i have the auto . lol but oh well . the guy will be getting back to me today bout the shipping on the head . and i will get all the internal and the throttle body . i'm not really sure how big to bore the throttle body out to ... any suggestions? i will be using the stage 2 cam from jbp if that helps any ... i want good mid and high end power . low end i'm not to worryed about cause if i brake torque it to bout 2500 (whebn i get my yank stall converte .. i will pass the low end quick straight to mid then high and stay in high u know what i mean ? ... i think this will be a very good post for all the 2200 guys out there . thanks again for all the people that have giving me infor and help ..
I have a built 2200 bottom end and my biggest limitation right now is the head and cam. My peak hp is about 5K rpm. As soon as I get enough money I'm sending my cam off the Crane for a regrind and the head is gonna get a nice big porting and polishing job
and then some 7:1 or bigger ratio full roller rockers
'99 2200 LS CX1 Sport
Carbon Cavi wrote:wow this is a great post to just sit and watch for me cause i would have asked all these questions and just waste another post subject when all my info is here. cept i got a 5 spd. thanks blade for reading my mind and posting on this. answered alot of my ?s already
You could still use a trans cooler, if you're a frequent racer you'll think the cooler will work wonders.....
N2O + Bolt-ons
= 220Hp/
250Tq
Coming Soon:HpTunersPro, EagleConnectingRods, WiescoPistons, 13sec2200
blade0604 wrote:ur welcome carbon cavi ... i know there are quite a few people out there with the 2200 that want to go all motor . i'm glad to know i'm helping out . atleast you have a 5 speed... i have the auto . lol but oh well . the guy will be getting back to me today bout the shipping on the head . and i will get all the internal and the throttle body . i'm not really sure how big to bore the throttle body out to ... any suggestions? i will be using the stage 2 cam from jbp if that helps any ... i want good mid and high end power . low end i'm not to worryed about cause if i brake torque it to bout 2500 (whebn i get my yank stall converte .. i will pass the low end quick straight to mid then high and stay in high u know what i mean ? ... i think this will be a very good post for all the 2200 guys out there . thanks again for all the people that have giving me infor and help ..
Not that JBP had bad cams or anything, but if you're going through the trouble to build a motor, believe me, you will get much better gains if you call up a major cam company like Comp, Crane, Elgin, etc. and tell them what your planning on running, where you'd like the powerband to be, etc. They will be able to come up with a grind specific to your needs and then you can ship them the cam and it will be mailed back to you. JBP gets iffy reviews around here, some love them, some hate them, personally whenever i've emailed them a question they always get back to me promptly, but for something high-performance I would trust people with many moons more experience first.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
ok thanks scarab .. i'll go to comp cams probly then .. but thats alittle further in the future...
Then again, your cam grinder had better know your engine if he's selling a cam for it. For many years the "big guys" sold cams that were adaptations of smallblock Chebbie cams for the 455 Buick. There wasn't enough demand for the Buick cams so there weren't many cams developed on the dyno. Once a few specialty Buick houses started offering cams it became apparent who had tested their cam and who had picked a lobe designed in a Chevrolet mouse engine.
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