Hello,

First off, i own a 1997 Cavalier coupe with the 2.2L motor and a 5-speed tranny

What I am interested in doing is building my own head, I would have 1 mm over-sized Stainless Steel valves put in and also new valve guides and a mild port and polish job (i would do port and polish)

What I am wondering is can I deck the heads to raise the compression.

I've looked everywhere and cannot find the stock deck height for my engine (LN2)
Does anyone know the stock deck height?

Also i was looking for the chamber size of the head, i know the pistons have a bowl size of 19.4 cc
Anyone know the stock chamber size in cc of the stock heads?

Also if some one has done this, how much can i take off before i have to worry about the valves hitting the piston. I also wanted to run 1.6:1 ratio roller rockers on my new heads.

Im looking at right now, taking .040"-.030" off the head and running head gaskets that are .030" thick, will this clearance? if i put 1.6:1 ratios on it will it still clearance?

If you can answer some, or any of these questions it would be a huge help

Thanks Jason

I'm not sure of the chamber volume in the head or how much you can take off before the valves and pistons start mixing, but I do want to mention that decking the head will cause increased slack in the timing chain as well, don't forget to consider that. So I don't think there's much more room for the tensioner to take slack out of the chain.

The timing chain, gears and camshaft are in the block on a 2.2, so decking the head will have no effect on chain slack. Depending on cam lift, however, you may have to look into shorter pushrods to maintain proper pushrod to rocker arm geometry.

You're better off leaving hte head as is and replacing the stock pistons with higher compression replacements, IMHO.






09:f9:11:02:9d:74:e3:5b:d8:41:56:c5:63

Pistons are deff the way to go as they can be changed back to drop it down if you ever decide to. Where as milling the head is permenent.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Thank you very much for input, i love how this forum has people who know what they are talking about, you guys are awesome!!

And sorry for the mix up, it is milling the head not decking.

Ok, question for all you who have replaced pistons in this motor or really any motor for that fact. is there any way i can leave the motor in the car and drop the crank and pistons out the bottom and just put everything back in? or would i have to take the motor out?

Thanks Jason


LN2 is the 4 cylinder LT1

damn your right been staring a twin cam motors for too long (>.< My bad.

i've done on my car exactly what you want to do...i've milled .067" off the head and with a .03" gasket, it gives 11:1 compression ratio...works well with 91 octane gas...did'nt try it with regular tho !

personally, i think it's beter to have stock replacement pistons and a milled head, as buying a used head from dismantlers will be cheaper (and more simple to swap) than buynig new pistons if you want to go back to stock... (cuz buying new pistons involves taking the engine out of the car, have the cylinders honed, new rings, gasket kit, etc etc. For the head, you can do this in about 4 hours with only head and exhaust gaskets to be bought)

assuming you will get replacement rocker studs from ARP for your rockers (which you can adjust the valve lash with), you should be ok to use stock pushrods.

Valve to piston clearance should'nt be a problem... i think that the distance between the deck height and valve head is biger than max valve lift....lol I dont have the real numbers tho, you could try measuring it to be shure....

i have an 1998 head on my car tho....in which the valves sits deeper in the combustion chamber than in the 1995-97 head so you might want to chek the clearance cuz milling .067" might not work for you as it did for me

good luck

micromag97 wrote:Ok, question for all you who have replaced pistons in this motor or really any motor for that fact. is there any way i can leave the motor in the car and drop the crank and pistons out the bottom and just put everything back in? or would i have to take the motor out?
Thanks Jason

I would say no. If you were to do it that way, there would not be any engine mounts holding the block in the car. It would be easier and safer to pull the entire engine out. I doubt that new piston rings would even be able to seat correctly without honing the cly walls. It seems like a shady way of doing things.




275hp & 306tq - 1999 2.2 ohv
13.2 @ 108 mph
-1996 2.4 liter + Turbo + Built motor + Torco + More boost = Lots o' Power
-2000 Mustang GT + 2004 Cobra motor, Whipple 2.3 supercharger,
built rear-end,Dodge Viper spec T56 6 speed, bolt-ons = wheelies at the track!!!!!

first off, you don't have to take out the crank to remove the pistons and rods... they come out the top of the block, and go back in the same way. if you can find a way to support the motor in the car (i think the right side upper mount bolts to the head, so if the head were off the motor would dangle on that side...), then yes, you can hone it and replace the pistons without removing it. You MUST however hone the cylinders and install new rings... there's no skimping on that step. But like Adler said, its most likely easier to pull the motor and do this on an engine stand. You can rent an engine crane from a local equipment rental store. If you're too cheap for that than try using a floor jack and some 2x4's to hold up the motor (note you'll have to support from an area that leaves the oil pan free to remove, so that you can access the rod caps).




Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said

Well, I can't believe all the good advise i got from my not so intelligent question.

I thought about it more and if i was going to swap pistons of course I'd pull the motor, I guess at the time I was tired and just got done studying and was looking to do as little work as possible and not about how to do things the right way.

As for the milling, I'm thinking ill go to the junkyard and pull a head off a junked car. I'll take it to a machine shop and see what they can do for me.

I'd loved to just replace pistons but i know as soon as i tear it down ill replace pistons cam, get some H-beams. . . . and end up spending more than my college budget would allow, not to say that rebuilding the motor to handle power wouldnt be awesome i just cant do with with the money i have.

dominik brissette wrote:assuming you will get replacement rocker studs from ARP for your rockers (which you can adjust the valve lash with), you should be ok to use stock pushrods.

Where did you get your rockers studs from?
And how are they adjusted? by putting shims under the stud?

Sorry i've never had to do this before

Thanks everyone for your input, its helping me out a lot

Jason


LN2 is the 4 cylinder LT1

actually, believe it or not but your questions are above average in intelligence insofar as what i've seen out of people on this board... Getting a spare head to mill so that you have the other as a backup would actually be a very good idea, if all your looking for is some more get up and go, then you can go about a full build later when you can afford it.




Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said

the machine shop will be able to tell you how much can be safely shaved from your head....... the have a fancy book that tells them these things...... I could look it up in the service manual for you, but I'm at work, and dont have one here.

I went 10 thousandths off on my 2.4 head..... w. no issues w. the timing chain.






SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

Yeah dude you asked non-stupid questions so you got non-stupid answers. Just don't forget like Jimmy said if you mill the head you need to get shorter pushrods or you can kill your cam or break a valve spring.

good Luck.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Ok next question I have is:

Speedracer, could you infact look up the amount of material can take off my head with milling? That would be a huge help

Other wise if i can not take enough off the 97 2.2L head to reach the 10.5:1-11:1 compression ratio, can i switch over to a 98+ 2.2L head? would it even be worth the extra compresssion i might be able to acheive?

Also if i do that, will that head even match up with my block or intake manifold, i know i would need new exhuast headers anything else?

Thank you everyone for helping me threw this project, once i get started on it in the next month or so ill start a new thread with pictures and keep you guys updated on how it goes and what kind of gain i got from it ( I will take it to the dyno).

Jason


LN2 is the 4 cylinder LT1

Can someone explain "honing" to me?

Honing a cylinder is where you use a tool that has 3 or 4 spring loaded fingers with
what is very similer to a sharpning stone you would use to sharpen a knife. Anyway
the tool is loaded on a drill and then put into the cylinders and as it spins it cleans the walls and makes a nice cross hatch pattern.

Hope that helps.



Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Ok, for those of you helping me out and the readers out there,

I have answered a few of my own questions,
first i cant switch to a 98+ new head nor do i really want to.

Also i looked into it and JBP includes the rocker studs and adjusters with there more expensive roller ratio rocker arms.

So i know where to get that so i can adjust valve lash and i now know how the adjustors work to set the rocker at the correct height

The only question i really have left is how much i can mill off?

Jason


LN2 is the 4 cylinder LT1

If I remember corectly every .030 will raise you up one full point in the compression ratio. But someone check me on this as its been a while. Anyway with the head being cast iron I'd have to guess you may run into a cooling problem if you went more then
10.5 - 1 or 11.0 - 1 . but its not an engine cooling problem its a combustion chamber cooling problem where you'll start to experence spark knock and your local gas may not have high enough octaine.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Cast iron? What crack are you smoking? The OHV 4 cyl. heads are aluminum....




Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said

Are they? Ok if you say so. I have an ECO in mine so I realy don't know what there made of. But if you say so then you should be able to get away with 11.0 - 1 without any problems but i wouldn't recomad going much higher.

I thought those old 2.2 had iron heads when did they switch over? not being a smart ass I'm just asking.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

well, I know my head is aluminum which should be excelent for cooling and also i used a few compression ratio calculators out there on the internet and found that i need to take off about .065" to reach about 10.6:1, and with that im planning on using 93 octaine gas which im thinking sound be enough.

Also, using a lot of different calculators out there i've found that:
Cylinder Head cc = 41.1
thats using:
89mm x 88mm bore x stroke
deck height of .010"
stock head gasket height of .040"
19.2 cc dish in the pistons (found at LN2 history)
and used 9:1 as my compression

do these numbers sound right?

moral of the story i believe stock head cc is about 41.1 cc

Jason


LN2 is the 4 cylinder LT1

Where did you get the compressed gasket thickness from? And is it the thickness of the gasket you'll be useing during this re-build cause different companies have different compression rates for there gaskets. Also I hate to throw a monkey wrench into the works bt are you sure you'll have enough piston to valve clearence?




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

I found the stock head gasket thickness from jtuners.com under cometic head gaskets which i know they dont make for the 97 but i know the thickness of the stock head gasket should be the same, and for clearance im not quiet sure yet

I'm trying to look into it but just cant seem to find anything, im thinkning about just asking my machine shop and see if he can find the info for me.

also i dont even know if i can .065" of my head. . . . im still looking

Jason


LN2 is the 4 cylinder LT1

well im getting tired just trying to figure this project out, i know i would like to do it but for right now im just going to buy some obx headers and maybe some underdrive pullies from jtuners

Thank you everyone for you input, but for now this project is dead
ill start a new thread when i actually buy the head and begin it

Jason


LN2 is the 4 cylinder LT1

Well good luck man just ask and if we can help we will.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.