I heard that this is being discussed on this forum and I thought I'd come here with the facts and let all of you decide. I know that Bill Hahn has been a part of the auto community for many years, but I have been a major part of the Chevy HHR community since a few months after it hit the market. People like proof of statements, Bill has been trying to distort the facts on www.chevyhhr.net about our situation and in some ways has outright lied about what transpired. I will not address those exact issues because they are between he and I. However, I can re-post here my original review of the experience along with a link to a website which contains all of the proof backing up what I say. At this time, no, I repeat no, proof has been offered which disputes what I say.

Detailed information can be found at http://hahnracecraft.info/

Quote:

My intention is to give an objective review about my experience with Hahn RaceCraft and the installation of a prototype turbo for a 2.4 Chevrolet HHR. There are photos of my engine compartment and general performance numbers posted here and elsewhere.

For exact dates and details, please refer to my timeline and the pdf’s that I have posted. You will find more information than is needed for a simple review there.

I’ll address the system itself first.

Looks:
The quality appears to be outstanding. The piping and intercooler look great. Aaron did a very good job of polishing the front of the intercooler and the pipes really pop under the hood in the red. Based on looks alone, I am very pleased.

Performance:
This is a difficult area to address because of the tuning never being completed. I can tell you this, it compares very well to when I was running a 75 shot through my ZEX set-up. The difference is that the power is constant. There are some issues around 4000 rpm’s which will need to addressed, but I don’t see this as a major issue which can not be fixed. I do get an occasional CEL light. I originally had three; two related to the transmission, the other for running lean. Once I replaced the TCM and had it flashed to stock, those codes went away. So I’m just running lean once in a while.

The shift points will probably need adjusting too. Really I think all of the performance complaints I have will be addressed by a proper tune.

Customer Service:
This is the area where there is an almost complete failure. My car was in the possession of Hahn RaceCraft for 277 Days (39 Weeks and 4 Days). I understand that The Hahn family experienced great personal tragedy during the year and I was as patient and understanding as anyone could be. However, my primary complaint is that that should not have been used as a way to explain away a project which was originally to take three months and that after it was slightly scaled back was told would take 2-3 weeks once work began. Little, if any work was done for the first several months my cars was there.

If there had been frequent, honest, open communication much would have been forgiven. However, I was constantly told that work was progressing, given an expected delivery date; only to find out as the day approached that little had changed. Over the course of events I stressed several time how important communication was to me.

I won’t detail all of the instances of wasted time; those can be found in the other files I have posted. I will however give two blatant examples.

The ECU’s in my car had an aftermarket tune that Hahn RC knew about. I even made arrangements for Tune Time to put them back to stock. However, Hahn RC did not send them off until eight months had passed. The car sat for over two weeks waiting for them to be done so that tuning could start.

My car also has a custom bumper. In the original discussions this was a concern shared by Bill Hahn and myself. For that reason my wife and I drove both of our HHR’s when we were to drop mine off so that Bill could take measurements and photos of a stock HHR. The first thing to be done was too remove my bumper and test fit an intercooler to determine in my car would work. Hahn RC needed a configuration that would work on stock 2.4’s also. The bumper was not test fitted over an intercooler until the weekend before I picked up the car. Because of this the intercooler had to be repositioned and further modifications had to be done to make it work.

As for how I was treated personally……..Aaron was always very respectful. Bill Hahn was not. I was often made to feel that I was not allowed to express any frustrations because his personal issues trumped them. This happened on more than one occasion. I asked over and over for updates about what was being done. At different times, I was told by Bill Hahn that he would have to “train” me to understand all of the “nuances” and that he didn’t have time for that. He also told that because of all of the technical aspects that I wouldn’t understand, all he needed to tell me was when my car was ready to be picked up.

Overall reflection:
If I had to do this again, I wouldn’t. I place much of the blame on myself for not keeping accurate records of early phone and private message conversations about the project and never getting anything in writing. I will not make any conclusions on the project or about the people I had contact with. I am just stating what happened and how some of it made me feel. I will not do business with Hahn RaceCraft in the future.

Quote:

Performance:
This is a difficult area to address because of the tuning never being completed.

It seems your gripe is with customer service. Probably should have left everything else out, Since you haven't ^^^^^, you should get it properly tuned.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart

subscribed

wow... 277 days holy fawk!!!



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

the pot calling the kettle black? I don't get it


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart

you risked it all calling him a liar, and you better back it up. your word is not going to stand up against his...

here is his direct quote toward the original poster... and this "complete stranger" is actually a friend of a reputable tuner here.

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:Ah thanks! Tell you what I am so willing to do...I will start a new thread to deal with this very subject. I think you will find it informative and eye-opening.

In it, we'll also address why you and your friends are so interested in tearing me down that you'll suspend any benefit of the doubt for me in favor of taking the word of a complete stranger. A complete stranger tells one of you this story, and without hesitation, you all are ready to tear down a member of your fraternity (me) that's been supporting your car platform for years. There's something very wrong with that, and we're going to find out just what it is

Mike LongBill wrote: has been trying to distort the facts on www.chevyhhr.net about our situation and in some ways has outright lied about what transpired.

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:Not that you're going to catch me in here, no. Lying in public can have nasty repercussions, especially when it can affect one's livelihood. Even more so when it's a technical art that's been passed down over the generations. It may sound corny, but I would never risk bringing shame to the Hahn family name. My late father's memory, and dignity, mean far to much to me.

I need not lie about the technology I have devoted my life to. I have a lot at stake. If I lie here, I risk it all.

Nonetheless, you know what you have to do now. Prove that I am lying. And do yourself a favor... stop feeling like my expert status belittles you. It's not even ABOUT you, lol!

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:
Edgy territory you're on there, sir. As with John, you've officially impugned my reputation now, accusing me of lying about my business in a public forum. You've offered no evidence to support your accusation.
.

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:You miss the point. I am talking here only about my business. You've accused me of lying about it. Standards of libel are fairly straightforward in that you can say just about anything you want in public, so long as it's true. As you've accused me of lying about my research, and my product, you may well be called upon to back up that accusation. If you can prove its true, you are in the clear. In order to do so, you will have to prove these following points untrue:

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote: Oh, and one suggestion...when you speak to these folks, don't tell them you accused me of lying about engine management issues in a public forum. They won't take kindly to it once they are finished laughing

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:From now on, the record will be set straight, and the facts laid bare for all to see. Both sides will be represented, and if my greater skills mean my side is better represented, then all is as it should be. No matter whose feelings get hurt. If you don't like it, then I suggest you don't come looking for it.

Wow. Hahn's takin a beating on the net these days.

I read your story.

I'm not sure i believe that you have a case to start fillig the net with your rant considering this project was intended to be a prototype for a production part and not simply a customer car..

I have seen cars sit at shops for 5 years with nothin done.

If I were to enter into a project like this with a busy and reputable shop, i would not be suprized at the resultant timeline.

Seriously, man. My prototype exhaust took ages. Yeah, I sat frustrated as the weather cleared and my convertible was in the shop. I certainly didn't call relentlesly with expectation or forcce them to commit to a ficticious end date. I was frustrated when a factory rubber hanger stretched and needed to be tended to. Calling to bitch will only make your voice less and less welcome. Sooner or later, right or wrong, sellers are human and get tired of being bitch slapped. I lost my cool once. He had a right to be upset....but....he needed to get a grip.

In this day and age, if you get a viable product, with reasonable support, and you got your car back....you're good to go.

I'm not sure that I have read a true Hahn horor story just yet. I don't expect to, but I guess you never know. Even the best screw up sometimes. But in this case, with a prototype system, you have not convinced me that thier intercooler is the one I want for my car.

ScottaWhite wrote:the pot calling the kettle black? I don't get it

Google lol

A republican doing shady business, that's a first.
Hmm...nawwww.
/sarcasm oh & lol too.



>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----

Wait......so you got a prototype and your bitching about it taking under a year??? I'd say you got pretty @!#$ lucky. ITS A PROTOTYPE!

Rosario wrote:Wait......so you got a prototype and your bitching about it taking under a year??? I'd say you got pretty @!#$ lucky. ITS A PROTOTYPE!

your banter is being ignored here buddy. Bill hahn is a stand up guy. I feel bad I've never purchased anything from him, but I will stand for his character and integrity.

Craig Lewis wrote:But in this case, with a prototype system, you have not convinced me that thier intercooler is the one I want for my car.

But in this case, with a prototype system, you have not convinced me that their intercooler isn't the one I want for my car.

Sorry to bump the thread so needlessly. I wanted to be clear that I still believe they would be a good place to do business with.

I reread your story and also noticed other threads strewn about. While I appreciate your point of view, I challenge that your intent was to be objective.

I had a turbo once, but then my spokes bent my basball cards.

Every story has two sides. As a note, All of the information below can be substantiated with existing documentation and/or first person witness testimony,

----------------------------------------------

I left my home and family, and my business, for many months this year to take care of my dying father. I left suddenly, with zero chance to plan for the impact it would have on my business. He became very ill very quickly with severe lung cancer, and time was running out fast.

I well knew I was risking my entire world in doing this. As I had spent all of my life previously placing business over family, this was a definite 180-degree turn. I had little choice...I was my father's only kin.

Mikes car came to us in January. I left for Florida and Dad in early March, so yes, nothing happened to the HHR while I was gone. The months I spent taking care of Dad in his home were a time I would trade for nothing. Not Mike Long's HHR, not any of the other projects this absence also stalled (whose owners did not choose to damage my reputation in public forum), not the lost business momentum. I did it for my family, and my Dad. He died in his own bedroom, with me at his side.

When I returned from my months-long sabbatical, I faced a long uphill battle that continues to this day, although the worst of the storm is mostly passed. At the time of my return, and once again after that, I offered Mike to take the HHR back until such a time as I could catch up and get back to it. He declined each time. I now know I should have insisted.

Upon my return, catching up to my day-to-day duties of keeping our manufacturing operation running consumed me, much more than I realized possible. Unfortunately, times like that mean new product development like this HHR must move to the back burner while we tend to the very real need of keeping our parts business running. Having been gone for months, the catching-up was enormous. My staff was spread thin from covering for me while I was gone. God bless my dear wife; she was my rock during my time with Dad, and she really stepped up to take care of Hahn RaceCraft while I was gone.

Finding the time to finish the HHR was tough, but we did finally prevail, and arranged for Mike to pick up. When my Aunt Diane died the week Mike was here, I again had to take time off to take care of my grieving mother (she'd now lost two dear family members in mere months) and help tend to Diane's affairs. More weeks lost in a year that was already destroyed, but family does indeed come first. My efforts on Mike's car that week were sub-par...my mind was dominated by my aunt's sudden hospitalization and emergency open-heart surgery. How I wish I'd have spent more time with her in her last days, but once again...cars dominated my life. The day after Mike left, she died too

Mike's got a genuine beef with us, and for his trouble and inconvenience, I am truly sorry. I had, and still have, every intention of finishing this project. I have tried. Mike refused to bring it back to me when I asked him to, saying he feared losing it for more months. I tried...but it would appear that under the circumstances, I just didn't try hard enough. My latest trip back to Florida was delayed several times (I was going to stop and visit him and the HHR on my way) and I had been unable to go to Mike's area until earlier this month. When we then made phone calls and emails to arrange to work on it, they went unreturned.

Were I able to conjure up many months of time to replace the ones I lost to taking care of Dad, I'd not find myself in this position with Mike. But that's just impossible. My family and I just want this nightmare to end. Fortunately, I only had to be in Florida for a few months...I may still be able to recover from the damage the absence caused my business if we can catch a break. All I want to do is get back to life as it was pre-2009.

Mike and I had agreed that, because he'd lost his job and funding was tight, he'd then just get by with what he had paid so far, which was well short ($1000 short) of the agreed upon price for the higher level prototype. So, I reduced the price of the system by that amount to help him out, and we both agreed to simplify the project to reflect the lower price. My willingness was there to accomodate the limitations of HIS situation and help out when he was down on his luck.

As an aside, Mike's total charges were also discounted many MORE thousands of dollars in exchange for his participation as a partner on a prototype vehicle.

All I've asked for is understanding and forgiveness, and a chance to finally make it right. I'm sorry, Mike. I truly am. We didn't deliver 100%, and it took forever. But it's so close, and there's still hope.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, December 15, 2009 9:19 AM

Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft

World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com

Subscribing as well..


Josh
SLK 32

well now...

i can understand both sides' point of view here.



Stand in the corner and SCREAM with me!!!!

i think Mike was a little unforgiving, Losing a Father is devastating... not to mention an aunt in the process... and then he cannot even pay for the work being performed? I'd say let it go, delete all threads and move on



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Qwibby {T3H Old QBE} wrote:i think Mike was a little unforgiving, Losing a Father is devastating... not to mention an aunt in the process... and then he cannot even pay for the work being performed? I'd say let it go, delete all threads and move on

I have to agree. The person you're dealing with obviously has no desire to let you fix the problem. Its not bad customer service, just a bad customer.


2010 Honda Fit LX

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:Mike's got a genuine beef with us, and for his trouble and inconvenience, I am truly sorry. I had, and still have, every intention of finishing this project. I have tried. Mike refused to bring it back to me when I asked him to, saying he feared losing it for more months. I tried...but it would appear that under the circumstances, I just didn't try hard enough. My latest trip back to Florida was delayed several times (I was going to stop and visit him and the HHR on my way) and I had been unable to go to
Mike's area until earlier this month. When we then made phone calls and emails to arrange to work on it, they went unreturned.

Stormy - you can't place the blame fully on the "customer" considering Bill has already acknowledged the problem. Hahn's had a hell of a year with family related issues and is trying to make up for lost time. Hahn RC will be back in full swing and hopefully improving upon what transpired for future events.

The customer wants his daily driver back in the time frame he was quoted, and that is completely understandable. I'd be upset to. On top of that, losing ones job is catastrophic as well. Especially in times like we are in now where jobs are hard to get and the competition is tough. However, I'm not sure why he would give his daily driver up knowing it's going to be a few months and the device was a prototype.

Also, everybody reading this should take notes to keep precise documentation. Otherwise it's he said / she said. Overall, both parties are at fault. Hahn's has admitted to this and I'm not sure if Mike has (documentation wise). I personally would have taken my car back and postponed the prototype until a time when Bill was back and fully operational. Then again, this is just my opinion.




Josh
SLK 32

As I read this I can't help but think sooo much of this could have been avoided by better communication BOTH ways.

Bill Hahn: First off sorry to hear about the recent passings your family has experienced. I don't want to come off as an armchair critic because I am sure it is extremely difficult to balance family and bussiness under those conditions. With that said keep in mind you have been on the vendor side of this for so long it could be easy to underestimate how big of a difference a short email or phone call can make. Even if the only news you have is nothing has changed, sorry for the delay. To a customer that can go along way in easing the customers mind about how long it is taking. Nothing is worse than feeling left in the dark about your car. I know I was recently in Mikes shoes with work being done on my car.

Mike Long: I can understand your hesitance to hand your car back over for fear of being without it for a long period of time. When you mod a car it is the price you pay to play. This falls under the category of shtt happens. It sounds like Bill is doing his best to make it right. He can't change the past all he can do is try and make it right now. He is still willing to work with you and if I were you I would give him a chance to try and make this work still. Your refusal to return calls is downright childish.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, December 15, 2009 1:33 PM


FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

DroptopPaul wrote:

Rosario wrote:Wait......so you got a prototype and your bitching about it taking under a year??? I'd say you got pretty @!#$ lucky. ITS A PROTOTYPE!

your banter is being ignored here buddy. Bill hahn is a stand up guy. I feel bad I've never purchased anything from him, but I will stand for his character and integrity.

I really hope you were quoting me to agree and responding to the OP.


Seems to me that this could have been resolved with out this needless post.

I believe that's the case, Rosario. Looks like a formatting error to me when DTP composed the post.



Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft

World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com

hehe, my bad ross

Bill, good luck with this guy. I admire your professionalism, and outright honesty through all of this. Here's to hoping you can come hang out with a bunch of kids and toss empty beers in a school bus