8k RPM - Performance Forum

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8k RPM
Sunday, January 20, 2008 11:10 PM
I want to rev to 8K. Will HPTuners work? Or do I need a stand alone?





Re: 8k RPM
Sunday, January 20, 2008 11:10 PM
I was told it won't.




Re: 8k RPM
Sunday, January 20, 2008 11:32 PM
You'll need new valve springs at the very least. HPTuners will let you rev to 8,192rpm.



Re: 8k RPM
Monday, January 21, 2008 7:17 AM
But it will not fuel that high of an rpm. just ask the squirl.



Re: 8k RPM
Monday, January 21, 2008 9:17 AM
NightmaresCavy wrote:But it will not fuel that high of an rpm. just ask the squirl.


it will fuel that high, your tunability will just be severely limited



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Re: 8k RPM
Monday, January 21, 2008 9:38 AM
squirl was having issues with the fuel or somthing cutting out and spazing his motor above 7K. LOok for his old dyno day that will have the answer.



Re: 8k RPM
Monday, January 21, 2008 9:39 AM
That's what I was told. I'm getting the hahn port-fueler friday. I have pistons, rods, cams, valves, springs, studs, head gasket and adjustable cam gears. I may be buying a new crank in a few weeks. I have HPTuners. I was hoping it would work. I didn't want to mess with a stand alone. where do I get one and how much are they?




Re: 8k RPM
Monday, January 21, 2008 9:56 AM
if you have the port fueler fuel may not be an issue may be knock retard. but that can be fixed with a msd dis 6 i think. that should get you to your 8000. with out a stand alone.



Re: 8k RPM
Monday, January 21, 2008 10:10 AM
NightmaresCavy wrote:squirl was having issues with the fuel or somthing cutting out and spazing his motor above 7K. LOok for his old dyno day that will have the answer.


I never really had trouble aboe 7k, that and I didnt go much higher, but the trouble I had was being able to dial it in.

He may have had different problems due to his head. My head was stock with a built bottom end. And I was only running 12 psi



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Re: 8k RPM
Monday, January 21, 2008 10:39 AM
he had dyno runs showing something being out of wack ican't remeber i will see if i can find it.



Re: 8k RPM
Monday, January 21, 2008 12:52 PM
NightmaresCavy wrote:if you have the port fueler fuel may not be an issue may be knock retard. but that can be fixed with a msd dis 6 i think. that should get you to your 8000. with out a stand alone.


no it wont. the portfueler works WITH your stock injectors. you will have to map the portfuelr from 6500-8000 as well as the injectors and spark.

Jray wrote:That's what I was told. I'm getting the hahn port-fueler friday. I have pistons, rods, cams, valves, springs, studs, head gasket and adjustable cam gears. I may be buying a new crank in a few weeks. I have HPTuners. I was hoping it would work. I didn't want to mess with a stand alone. where do I get one and how much are they?



why are u wanting to rev that high anyway? have a friend with a honda thats bragging about the redline? they rev that high due to short strokes. i believe hahn is reving that high on their destroked 2.0

standalones range from 1200 for an AEM all the way to aroudn 3-4k for a tec 3.

its a pain in the ass on hpt for spark and fuel above 7000 with hpt. i was following alot of pjs old posts as i wanted to bump my redline up to 7k (faster mph each gear)

pj had a/f problems and he was n/a. with a high amount of boost. forged or not, a bad a/f even for a second or 2, can destroy a motor

1) be happy with the normal redline
2) drop alot of coin on an ems like efi or something and rev to 8.

personally i dont see why you would want to even rev that high anyway, unless its a drag only car.

u need to update your reg. what cams are you running?



12.5@116 2.0 60ft

Re: 8k RPM
Monday, January 21, 2008 3:24 PM
According to your profile, you have no flow mods necessary to rev anywhere near 8k. Revving higher does not equate to more power.

And from what I remember, it wasn't an issue of not having fuel or spark above 7K, it was an issue of being able to fine tune past it with HPT...but I've never used HPT so I don't know first hand.

John H wrote:standalones range from 1200 for an AEM all the way to aroudn 3-4k for a tec 3.

A full MS-II setup can be had for less than 500.


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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
Re: 8k RPM
Monday, January 21, 2008 8:52 PM
the skwirl saw 8000 on more than one occassion, and crashing into the limiter.

with a built head higher revs is no problem. tuning is another story.

the ecu's fuel maps only run to 7000rpm and the spark maps to 6400rpm. after that, the ecu really doesn't know what to do in terms of fuel or spark.

what I ASSUMED it did was repeat the final value over and over until the hard coded ecu limit of 8192rpm or whatever you set fuel cut at.. but to be honest I'm not really sure.

dyno tests showed my AFR going CRAZY after 7000rpm and I can only imagine what the spark advance was doing up there.


in all honesty, worry less about revs and more about where your power will be. worry about revs if dyno tests show you're still making power at the limiter.

if you're going turbo revs won't be as important depending on the size of the turbo you're running.


but if you're going boost, you're going to want some kind of aftermarket form of fuel injection control OTHER than HPT (port fueler, or megasquirt/ spectre ems) our ecu even with HPT is just not designed to work well with forced induction.

I'm doing one more round of all motor junk early this season with some dyno sessions in the plans to really investigate what happens when the ecu goes off the fuel maps.





Re: 8k RPM
Monday, January 21, 2008 10:12 PM
DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) - APU wrote:the skwirl saw 8000 on more than one occassion, and crashing into the limiter.

with a built head higher revs is no problem. tuning is another story.

the ecu's fuel maps only run to 7000rpm and the spark maps to 6400rpm. after that, the ecu really doesn't know what to do in terms of fuel or spark.

what I ASSUMED it did was repeat the final value over and over until the hard coded ecu limit of 8192rpm or whatever you set fuel cut at.. but to be honest I'm not really sure.

dyno tests showed my AFR going CRAZY after 7000rpm and I can only imagine what the spark advance was doing up there.


in all honesty, worry less about revs and more about where your power will be. worry about revs if dyno tests show you're still making power at the limiter.

if you're going turbo revs won't be as important depending on the size of the turbo you're running.


but if you're going boost, you're going to want some kind of aftermarket form of fuel injection control OTHER than HPT (port fueler, or megasquirt/ spectre ems) our ecu even with HPT is just not designed to work well with forced induction.

I'm doing one more round of all motor junk early this season with some dyno sessions in the plans to really investigate what happens when the ecu goes off the fuel maps.


listen to pj on this as he has the most experience. and just so you know. he was n/a you will destory your motor fast with a horrid a/f ratio... forged or not. with or without the portfueler.

sooner you get that 8k redline out of your head, the better.



12.5@116 2.0 60ft
Re: 8k RPM
Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:09 AM
the reason I wanted to rev that high was... when driving my brothers car, the stock red line came really fast when he was turbo. and I thought if it's still pulling harder. I should let it. I was thinking of going to 7500rpm. I was just going to tune it a little higher, so if I went over it wouldn't cut off or go all out of wack. I know you don't want to rev until your losing power I just wanted to find a good spot. if my car wasn't making the right power above 7 I wouldn't do it. I just wanted to make sure if what I heard about hpt and the stock ecu was correct.

my reg. is correct for the most part. I haven't done any head work to my car yet. I have all those parts I listed ready to go in once I decide on what to do. I have a bunch more that I didn't list.

I have the turbo comp cams.

is the portfueler only maped to go to 6500rpm as well?

and I know reving higher doesn't equate to more power. you rev higher with the stock motor and your power drops drastically. and with many turbo cars as well. I'm going to spend a bunch of time on the dyno and at the track finding the best place for my car.

And I'll have a truck that is going to be driven most of the time.







Re: 8k RPM
Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:24 AM
sorry. it's late and I'm exhausted. I just read that and.... I need to use some comas and periods. among other things.

thanks for the imput and advice I really apreciate it.






Re: 8k RPM
Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:48 AM
the comp turbo cams aren't designed to make power over 7000 rpm. if you really wanna bump your rev limiter i'd go with 7k. should easily be possible with all the work your planning on doing.
Re: 8k RPM
Tuesday, January 22, 2008 4:17 AM
Cody Vernon wrote:the comp turbo cams aren't designed to make power over 7000 rpm. if you really wanna bump your rev limiter i'd go with 7k. should easily be possible with all the work your planning on doing.


I had the turbo cams from comp and ran till 7250. (built bottom end) I was afraid of going that high (not really, lol). I know for a fact that when we tried tuning with hpt up that high it was a bitch, not t mention trying to tune it for boost...



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Re: 8k RPM
Tuesday, January 22, 2008 8:11 AM
I didn't want to sound like I was dead set on going to 8k. I just wanted to know if HPT could do it. I wanted to know what kind of range I had to tinker with. I got my answer and thank you for the help. But if I really wanted to go to 8000 I would buy what I needed to run that high. I'll make it run right.

Is the portfueler only set up to go to 6500rpm? I'm just curious now.




Re: 8k RPM
Tuesday, January 22, 2008 8:15 AM
where would I go to buy a stand alone?

Is megasquirt the best option?




Re: 8k RPM
Tuesday, January 22, 2008 9:27 PM
megasquirt is a good system and its only a few hundred. i think it only does fuel though, not spark?? someone correct me if im wrong? only person that i know could answer is rich. his SN is eco something. hes a Jersey J



12.5@116 2.0 60ft

Re: 8k RPM
Wednesday, January 23, 2008 4:11 AM
Megasquirt can do fuel and spark if you buy the ignition board control thing. The biggest deal with megasquirt is setting it up, you need to add in a lot of sensors and splice into other ones. You also need to creat all your fuel maps, startup cold, startup warm, decel, all of them from scratch now jcavi and rich both have done a lot of the dirty work and I am sure they would give you their maps if you compensated them for their time, it takes forever lol.



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Re: 8k RPM
Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:17 AM
Jray wrote:where would I go to buy a stand alone?

Is megasquirt the best option?

Define "best". MS and MS-II are certainly great options as far as being affordable as well as still being a complete standalone, but I believe one of the best parts about it is it being open source.

Megasquirt requires the MS-Extra code to run spark control and increase tuning from 8x8 tables to 12x12, IIRC. Megatune2 for Megasquirt-II will do spark control natively and can be setup with predictor algorithms based on sensor feedback and engine load..... the MS2-Extra code has even greater tuning posibilities (such as cam sensor readings and coil-on-plug ignition).

diyautotune.com is where most people buy megasquirt products, but there are other vendors as well that can be found on msefi.com.

QBE (Aka Phil No More Boost) wrote:Megasquirt can do fuel and spark if you buy the ignition board control thing. The biggest deal with megasquirt is setting it up, you need to add in a lot of sensors and splice into other ones. You also need to creat all your fuel maps, startup cold, startup warm, decel, all of them from scratch now jcavi and rich both have done a lot of the dirty work and I am sure they would give you their maps if you compensated them for their time, it takes forever lol.

Only sensor I bought was an open element IAT (I believe from an LT1), because I wanted to be able to put it in the manifold. MS was designed to natively interface with GM sensors (i.e. IAC stepper motor, coolant/iat, TPS-which is just a potentiometer anyways). I personally haven't been able to get the IAC to respond, though.


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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
Re: 8k RPM
Wednesday, January 23, 2008 11:55 AM
Quote:

I personally haven't been able to get the IAC to respond, though.


Heh, me either. When it's cold the idle will go way up and never come back down. Once the engine warms up, if I shut it off for a few minutes, then re-start it the idle will be where I want it. Never have quite figured it out.... I was almost thinking a bad IAC, because according to the MS, it is backing the steps down as it warms up.





Re: 8k RPM
Wednesday, January 23, 2008 2:21 PM
SHOoff wrote:
Quote:

I personally haven't been able to get the IAC to respond, though.


Heh, me either. When it's cold the idle will go way up and never come back down. Once the engine warms up, if I shut it off for a few minutes, then re-start it the idle will be where I want it. Never have quite figured it out.... I was almost thinking a bad IAC, because according to the MS, it is backing the steps down as it warms up.

I'm using the stock J-body PCM to control the IAC, and it does a pretty good job. Occassionally I'll get surging, but overall it's not that bad. I've read through a bunch of the questions people asked regarding this problem, and many said to try different codes, but none of them worked for me, so I said screw it, lol.


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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
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