If i were to build my setup NA, but do everything i would really need, how much would i need to spend to get it comparable to a decent turbo setup?

ok be realistic for a sec...

theres not some magical list where it has a group of stuff, you add and you are magically more powerful than a turbo....

theres WAY too many ratios to even start bench racing.... such as what are the cam specs, what is the comp ratio, etc etc etc etc etc...



thats like me asking you, how many different style weights would YOU have to lift to be as large as lou ferrigno...

Honestly to be as powerful as a turbo engine you will have to spend more money than it is worth. Turbocharged engines are extrememly sensitive to engine modifications while N/A's just aren't. For example, take my old 1991 daytona shelby, I put on a 3" turbo-back exhaust and gained 23.4 WHP. In an N/A you MIGHT gain 10. Just my .02 cents

Cavy2Env wrote:Honestly to be as powerful as a turbo engine you will have to spend more money than it is worth.

incorrect....

VERY incorrect.


prime example. scruf spent less than a cost for a basic turbo kit for 174 whp 225 on nitrous. starting with an engine that was around 100hp, around mid 80;s to the wheels...

he was runnign around high 14;s/low 15's all motor and 13;s on nitrous...

some guys on turbos are still in the mid 15;s with the same engine on turbo...



you dont have to spend alot of money IF you do your research, shop around and shop wisely at that....

there are people on this forum who have added over 6000$ in parts to get boosted and still run slower than N/A cars....



i agree that with a turbo, the smaller things make larger gains, but that goes along the lines of the more power you start with, the higher the percentage that an upgrade will make.



and saying its more money than its worth??? granted it oppinion, but as pointed out, many have spent less than others who are boosted for basic boltons and ran faster than the boosted people.

turbo > NA




I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.

Dam-it Muffins (Event) wrote:

Cavy2Env wrote:Honestly to be as powerful as a turbo engine you will have to spend more money than it is worth.

incorrect....

VERY incorrect.


prime example. scruf spent less than a cost for a basic turbo kit for 174 whp 225 on nitrous. starting with an engine that was around 100hp, around mid 80;s to the wheels...

he was runnign around high 14;s/low 15's all motor and 13;s on nitrous...

some guys on turbos are still in the mid 15;s with the same engine on turbo...
.

So the question being here is, what kind of add ons could i do for a similar horespower gain with similar pricing as "scruf"

it all depends what youre looking for. with n/a engines, theres generally some sort of limit to how much power you can get, based on the displacement. i just can't visualize someone getting 400 horsepower out of a n/a 4-cylinder engine. even with all possible airflow improvements, open port exhaust, cams, higher compression, valvetrain and bottom end work for a high-revving engine, etc etc.... theres only so much you can get. with a turbo... you can just keep cranking up the boost. gm has an ecotec engine in a drag car running something like 40+ psi of boost, and putting down 1400hp at the wheels. as long as youve got parts strong enough to handle the power..... you can do quite alot with boost.

rob (the turboed one) wrote:it all depends what youre looking for. with n/a engines, theres generally some sort of limit to how much power you can get, based on the displacement. i just can't visualize someone getting 400 horsepower out of a n/a 4-cylinder engine. even with all possible airflow improvements, open port exhaust, cams, higher compression, valvetrain and bottom end work for a high-revving engine, etc etc.... theres only so much you can get. with a turbo... you can just keep cranking up the boost. gm has an ecotec engine in a drag car running something like 40+ psi of boost, and putting down 1400hp at the wheels. as long as youve got parts strong enough to handle the power..... you can do quite alot with boost.

I can picture a 4 cylinder running 400 HP all motor if they had VVT



www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837

Quote:

I can picture a 4 cylinder running 400 HP all motor if they had VVT

tha would be sweet



Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!

NJHK (Sexual Chocolate) wrote:
I can picture a 4 cylinder running 400 HP all motor if they had VVT

why do you say that ? of course VVt helps a bit, but I don't see how it could help a 4 banger hit 400 hp



15.891 @ 88 mph stock, still getting @!#$ty launches...

DanteMustDie wrote:

NJHK (Sexual Chocolate) wrote:
I can picture a 4 cylinder running 400 HP all motor if they had VVT

why do you say that ? of course VVt helps a bit, but I don't see how it could help a 4 banger hit 400 hp

I said that because Hondas have been working with V-tec and VVT for years and I'm sure someone has done it in an Integra Type-R or some vehicle of that sort.



www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837

Rick Stanley wrote:

Dam-it Muffins (Event) wrote:

Cavy2Env wrote:Honestly to be as powerful as a turbo engine you will have to spend more money than it is worth.

incorrect....

VERY incorrect.


prime example. scruf spent less than a cost for a basic turbo kit for 174 whp 225 on nitrous. starting with an engine that was around 100hp, around mid 80;s to the wheels...

he was runnign around high 14;s/low 15's all motor and 13;s on nitrous...

some guys on turbos are still in the mid 15;s with the same engine on turbo...
.

So the question being here is, what kind of add ons could i do for a similar horespower gain with similar pricing as "scruf"

check out his registry and start pricing things out.

another thing alot of people forget is you dont need alot of power, when you arent as heavy...

Quote:

i just can't visualize someone getting 400 horsepower out of a n/a 4-cylinder engine.

it can be done, but the thing is, even with turbo on this site, whose done that besides mike karas?

i mean the lot of boosted guys are in the 200-300 range at best... karo topped over that... but the avg turbo kit isnt gonna put you near 300-400hp. one can, but not the avg one being sold.

In general, 400hp 4 cylinders are the stuff of the race world. The early Offenhauser engines designed for Indy competition were making 350 ish hp at 5500 rpm in the '50s from 270 ci. By the '60's, technology had advanced to allow engine rpm to increase and "Offy" engines of 250ci were able to make around 400 hp @ 6000 rpm. These were 4 valve/ head engines fully designed for racing. Drop the cubic inches by about 50% to 125 ci and it's not unreasonable to expect a power drop of 40 to 50%

The key to high hp #'s is high rpm operation. If a measly 200 ft/lbs of torque can be produced at 10000 rpm, you've got 380 hp at the crank. Though it's not so easy to produce that torque, the real work comes in making the engine stay together at that speed. The turbo cars tend to make high hp at lower rpm and they do it by creating gobs of torque. The tradeoff is that the bottom end is subject to some fairly strong twisting forces.

On a side note, I'm not sure how people are rating cranks by horsepower. I mean, if I build an engine that makes 300 hp at 2200 rpm, that 716 ft/lbs of torque. Show me a stock J car crank that can handle that. Or if I build an engine that produces 300 hp at the same time it's producing 105 ft/lbs of torque, then the crank has to survive at 15000 rpm. I'm not so sure a cast J car crank would live through that, either.

Quote:

another thing alot of people forget is you dont need alot of power, when you arent as heavy...

Something to always consider. Power to weight ratio is the key to fun. Diesel engines in tractor trailers produce 300-400 hp when stock, yet it's fairly easy to outrun one from light to light with a stock J car. Some of those engine/ transmission combinations alone weigh as much as a stock Cavvy.

-->Slow

i think this thread just helped me decide to try and go all engine. even if it's a bit slower it's not like i'm gonna be racing anyways. i wonder what compels us to make it go faster?

http://www.helpelijah.com

testosterone, and for many, ego

never been really big on drag racing though.

Sean McAfee wrote:i think this thread just helped me decide to try and go all engine. even if it's a bit slower it's not like i'm gonna be racing anyways. i wonder what compels us to make it go faster?

Because it's fun. What else ?



15.891 @ 88 mph stock, still getting @!#$ty launches...

Quote:

i wonder what compels us to make it go faster?

It's evolution... gone wrong.

-->Slow

Sean McAfee wrote:i think this thread just helped me decide to try and go all engine. even if it's a bit slower it's not like i'm gonna be racing anyways. i wonder what compels us to make it go faster?

definetely ego! lol, gotta smoke everyone else that'd be where its at