I stumbler across this on the net if you scroll down on the products list this company now has released a crank scraper/windage tray for the Vortec 2.2 inline four. Which is what we know as the 2200 right?
http://www.crank-scrapers.com/
looks like a 2.2 oil pan to me
the pan i have already had one...
Dam-it Muffins (Event) wrote:the pan i have already had one...
windage tray in the pan that is....
Good find, that looks a LOT like the block sitting in my garage. I was originally going to fabricate these, but making a scraper is quite the task, so I may have found where part of my next paycheck will end up.
<img src=http://hometown.aol.com/yogiandbooboo7/images/french.jpg>
Newb question here. What are the benefits from this? Better oil circulation (keeping it in the pan?), keeps more oil off the crank (better performance?). Thanks for your time and find. Nice.
*****************************************************************
"The J's weren't designed to be sports cars, the suspension sucks, the brakes are tiny, and the target market for our car doesn't need to be able to do any more than 65mph." - Shifted
A more accurate observation has never been typed. These should be the starting points before any serious performance modification. What's the point of making a serious performer if you can't control it's power?
nm, I just read the benefits off the site. *walks away sheepishly*
Just remember, "Bahh! means no..."
*****************************************************************
"The J's weren't designed to be sports cars, the suspension sucks, the brakes are tiny, and the target market for our car doesn't need to be able to do any more than 65mph." - Shifted
A more accurate observation has never been typed. These should be the starting points before any serious performance modification. What's the point of making a serious performer if you can't control it's power?
And I was going to make my own crank scraper, but with this I'd get the windadge tray also. That will mke things much easier, even at $150, it would be worth it.
Has anybody who posted about getting this actually done it? Any feed back on it?
I recently developed a knock in my motor and will be replacing it with another motor asap. But since i will have the other motor laying around I planned on beefing it up for boost and plan on using this crank scraper.
Thanks
Jeff
Im thinking that the engineers at GM designed that part better than they could, IMO they look like something that would do more harm than help...
Ender_Wiggin wrote:Im thinking that the engineers at GM designed that part better than they could, IMO they look like something that would do more harm than help...
Stock engines don't have a crank scraper, and the stock windage tray is pictured on the company's site.
This is a good find. I had been toying around with the idea of a crank scraper, but what I would really like to see is a baffled pan with trap doors. I may put this on my wish list.
looks cheap to me !!! looks like something we could all build in an afternoon in the garage...and benefit should be minimal !!!
have the crank ligntened and balanced instead...you'll get more HP/$. Or crankshaft knife edging...
My 2 cents...
I was talking to some guys on V6Z24 about this site. I guess the company did a GP for 60DV6 engines. I've asked some of the people who bought them about quality, but haven't heard anything back yet.
And FYI, this is not something that takes an afternoon to build, unless you have some serious design and fabrication in your background.
holy old thread batman!
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
Its not that old, and its back from the dead.
I was planning onmaking my own scraper, but for 150 bucks ill give these people a chance.
I just emailed them asking if they have done any dyno testing on this application and if so what were the gains.
Also i think it will give an easy 5HP and much better oil control, also its designed to work with the stock steel pan, i wonder how it will work with the Moroso Aluminum Oil Pan from Howell?
Mike
1992 GMC Sonoma GT #492. Oh, Its just a stock V6!
1999 Cavalier Coupe, daily driver, 2200/M5. Mods and pics are in my registry.
+
That pretty much says it all.
Support the site that supports your habit, Go Premium.
Well they certainlyhave very fast email response. I sent an email asking a few questions and heres the response on got just a few minutes ago.
Hi,
I do not see any reason why the main studs versus bolts would be an issue -- good plan, btw.
No, no dyno testing. I would expect that it would show similar hp return percentages as the other NA scraper setups -- 2 to 3% on static engines (no sloshing sump oil which would yield higher
. You can see some independent dyno tests run on one of our other windage tray systems on our webpage (Dodge 2.4). Significant help in keeping the engine cool and a HP boost.
I can make a Teflon version, no problem. A complete Teflon setup would run $250.
Thanks for asking!
Kind regards,
Kevin Johnson
Ishihara-Johnson Crank Scrapers
http://www.crank-scrapers.com
Land O' Lakes, Florida
727-808-8602
BTW, normally the scraper would have a clearance if .035 to .060 off the crank surface, but with the teflon scraper you can have direct contact andafter the engine runs in it will sefl clearance to around .001-.005 which will make it almost twice as affective and clean that much more oil off the crank.
Granted its on the expensive side, but i think for my all out no holds barr 2200 build up im going to get the teflon one, the results should be worth the cost.
Mike
1992 GMC Sonoma GT #492. Oh, Its just a stock V6!
1999 Cavalier Coupe, daily driver, 2200/M5. Mods and pics are in my registry.
+
That pretty much says it all.
Support the site that supports your habit, Go Premium.
Hi Dominik,
The scraper alone is $49.95; the complete windage tray setup with scraper is $149.95.
Many professional racing shops do manufacture their own scrapers but it is quite time-consuming. Complex windage tray setups take much, much longer. It is a question of what your time is worth and if you have the fabrication equipment.
I sold the first scraper and windage tray setup to a circle track racer at quite a substantial loss in time and money in the hopes that I could provide a worthwhile product to J-Body enthusiasts. Just obtaining the short block cost me significantly more than $150 in time and parts.
As for the benefit being minimal, I guess we just disagree.
You might want to check out the rules at many circle tracks. Scrapers are often illegal because they are too much of an unfair advantage.
Every magazine article (read independent evaluation) I have read discussing them over the past ~30 years seems to think they are one of the cheapest things you can do to increase the performance of your engine. Numerous OEM stock engines have the technology.
I have numerous customers who ask me to make custom scrapers to fit to their knife-edged cranks. I just sent two out last week to the same racer.
That's my 2 cents -- just defending the underlying tech and our products.
Kind regards,
Kevin Johnson
Ishihara-Johnson Crank Scrapers
dominik brissette wrote:looks cheap to me !!! looks like something we could all build in an afternoon in the garage...and benefit should be minimal !!!
have the crank ligntened and balanced instead...you'll get more HP/$. Or crankshaft knife edging...
My 2 cents...
Dam-it Muffins (Event) wrote:Dam-it Muffins (Event) wrote:the pan i have already had one...
windage tray in the pan that is....
The pan pictured on our website has an oil surge baffle in it. Many times people think these are windage trays but they are technically different as are crank scrapers.
No offence, i respect what you do
it's just not convincing me without dyno numbers...well, a lot of things are going for performance while they should be questionable as performance items.
dominik brissette wrote:No offence, i respect what you do
it's just not convincing me without dyno numbers...well, a lot of things are going for performance while they should be questionable as performance items.
Well, I can respect that skepticism. I would just say take the time to do the background research in the history of windage control over, say, the past 40 years.
There is no need to look at race vehicles as the design evidence from OEM passenger car engines alone is quite overwhelming. This also includes a marked trend toward increased OEM windage control.
To be frank, it is well past the time of dyno testing and firmly established as a sound design principle. There is tacit agreement from factory engineers representing Chevrolet, Cadillac, Pontiac, Porsche, BMW, Chrysler, Daimler-Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Dodge, Ford, GM, IHC, VW, Mazda, Suzuki, and Studebaker. Those are just the OEM companies that I have seen examples instantiated first-hand in stock passenger car engines.
Kind regards,
Kevin
Well IMO this is something that is not going to give to a magical 50 HP, but it wil have much better oil control and with less oil on the crank and rotation assembly the affects will be similair to an aluminum flywheel, it will rev faster and youll get more power to the wheels, same as an undrdrive pulley.
I will be getting the full windage tray and scraper for my 2200 and will be getting the teflon version, because for less than double the price the scraper will be twice as effective.
Its little things like this that can make the differance in a well bullt 2200. And it should be a must have part for anybody building a serious motor, just like forged pistons instead of just using stockers.
Mike
1992 GMC Sonoma GT #492. Oh, Its just a stock V6!
1999 Cavalier Coupe, daily driver, 2200/M5. Mods and pics are in my registry.
+
That pretty much says it all.
Support the site that supports your habit, Go Premium.
Hot rod are you going to use stock rods on your build or are you going to use the eagle ones? I had sent them an email concerning this issue and the clearance with the eagle rod. When i get my rods in about 2months I will be sending 1 down to Florida to get a scraper clearanced for the eagle rods.
Juiced n' Boost--( pushrods ) wrote:Hot rod are you going to use stock rods on your build or are you going to use the eagle ones? I had sent them an email concerning this issue and the clearance with the eagle rod. When i get my rods in about 2months I will be sending 1 down to Florida to get a scraper clearanced for the eagle rods.
No ill be using the eagle rods, which i already have, along with some forged wisco pistons.
Are the eagle rods that much bigger than the stockers??
Mike
1992 GMC Sonoma GT #492. Oh, Its just a stock V6!
1999 Cavalier Coupe, daily driver, 2200/M5. Mods and pics are in my registry.
+
That pretty much says it all.
Support the site that supports your habit, Go Premium.
HotRodV6 wrote:Juiced n' Boost--( pushrods ) wrote:Hot rod are you going to use stock rods on your build or are you going to use the eagle ones? I had sent them an email concerning this issue and the clearance with the eagle rod. When i get my rods in about 2months I will be sending 1 down to Florida to get a scraper clearanced for the eagle rods.
No ill be using the eagle rods, which i already have, along with some forged wisco pistons.
Are the eagle rods that much bigger than the stockers??
They actually appear to be a shallower profile. (from comparing pictures which can be misleading sometimes)
I would modify the tray and scraper for a better fit.
Kevin Johnson wrote:HotRodV6 wrote:Juiced n' Boost--( pushrods ) wrote:Hot rod are you going to use stock rods on your build or are you going to use the eagle ones? I had sent them an email concerning this issue and the clearance with the eagle rod. When i get my rods in about 2months I will be sending 1 down to Florida to get a scraper clearanced for the eagle rods.
No ill be using the eagle rods, which i already have, along with some forged wisco pistons.
Are the eagle rods that much bigger than the stockers??
They actually appear to be a shallower profile. (from comparing pictures which can be misleading sometimes)
I would modify the tray and scraper for a better fit.
So shouold i send you my rods and pistons so you cam go ahead and make my windage tray and tefon scraper??
How long would it take you to do it, and woudl there be any additional cost or still the 250 for the whole setup?
And am i to assume that you already have a 2.2 shortblock??
Mike
1992 GMC Sonoma GT #492. Oh, Its just a stock V6!
1999 Cavalier Coupe, daily driver, 2200/M5. Mods and pics are in my registry.
+
That pretty much says it all.
Support the site that supports your habit, Go Premium.
